Lignum Vitae? Heaviest/Strongest wood I've seen

[Troop]

Hey Troop,
I think you got it right. I did a google image search for ipe / brazilian walnut and found a photo that looks like this wood.
I didn't want to steal their image so use the link to look.

I've worked with it quite a bit; makes phenomenal handle material. Just DO NOT BREATHE THE DUST!

 

[Burl Source]

Hey Troop,
I might be talking wrong, but I know what I meant. I seem to do that a lot as I get older.

Here is what I meant;
When I said dead on quartersawn I should have said exactly quartersawn.
Quartersawn - Cut at a right angle to the growth rings
Flatsawn - Cut parallel to the growth rings
Riftsawn - Cut at an angle across growth rings - between 1/4 and flat

I am wearing a dust mask while sanding this. The one with a hole in it for my cigarette.

 

[jdm61]

Vera wood or Argentine lignum vitae has sawdust that looks like yellow cake crumbs. it is not that hard to work when it is first cut and exposed to air. The sawdust is "moist" for lack of a better term, but it didn't gum up my tools like some other woods did, ironwood in particular. It hardens up later and will definitely darken after a few days.

 

[hellgap]

Well this is a very interesting thread good posting.

 

[Dan Pierson]

I am wearing a dust mask while sanding this. The one with a hole in it for my cigarette.

You remind me of kayaking buddy of mine who used to go down the river with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

The splinters sounded like ipe to me. It is a bear to work with because of them.
Stacy

 

[Phillip Dobson]

I'd like to add to the confusion about Lignum Vitae and Verawood. I have some verawood (Bulnesia) that I'm sure is correctly identified, (sawn from relatively recent stock at Gilmer Wood). It displays many of the characteristics that you described for LV. It is brownish-tan when fresh and then turns olive-green on exposure. The logs I saw at Gilmer looked the same.

Here's what I mean:

fresh

after exposure

Your wood might very well be Ipe (the grain doesn't look like LV or verawood). The only piece a saw was a huge table slab (over 40" by 10') at Edensaw in Port Townsend. It looked darker than what you showed, but that could just be normal variation.

Mark, please educate me. Wouldn't "dead on" quartersawn be a rift cut?
- Thanks

Rift sawing is somewhere between flat and quatersawn.

Phillip

 

[Troop]

I found a few good diagrams that shows the difference between "quartersawn" and "rift sawn", so that everyone is on the same sheet of music.

 

[Burl Source]

Troop,
The guys who did that diagram are wrong. If I ordered 1/4 sawn oak from them and they cut it like their diagram, I would be returning 1/2 of the wood. With oak especially there will be a big difference between the look of rift and quartersawn wood. I know I am just one guy and they are probably a big company. But I'll say it again, they are wrong. Later today I will find diagrams to show how it is supposed to be cut. What they call riftsawn is close to correct quarter sawing, but if they cut it the way they show it would be retarded and would be tons of waste. Sorry if I am making a big deal about this. It's like the experts that say burls are caused by bugs or injuries.

 

[Daniel Koster]

I'm not sure what the problem is. Few other woods even come close to Lignum Vitae and Verawood in terms of density....and they don't look anything like it.

Can you weigh a piece, measure it and give us the density? (lbs/cu in)


In my personal experience, verawood is MUCH more aromatic and more waxy than lignum vitae. It's like camphor...you can smell it without having to "scratch" it.

Also, LV doesn't have dust of just one color. I've seen yellow, brown and green. I've got pieces with sapwood and heartwood in them too. There's no hard-n-fast rule regarding the dust...can't make a judgment on that alone.



Lastly, keep in mind the local flora/fauna can affect a tree's natural composition...creating subtle variations even within specific species. That's what makes them all so interesting.


Regardless....those are some nice pieces...and it's certainly a tough wood!



And YES I have had LV crack on me....but I have never had Verawood crack. I think the latter has more wax in it to help protect it from moisture changes.

Dan

 

[marekz]

+1 on the " argentine lignum vitae"-marekz---smells great,good handle material.

 

[midnight flyer]

I've worked with a lot of IPE as it is popular (it was when the economy was hot anyway...) for deck surfaces. Not for the handrails, framing, etc., but for the actual walking surface.

It looked just like your sample with the sawdust, including the color of the sawdust. The boring grain was a perfect match. A deck structure covered with IPE looked like it was covered with a man made composite.

Just by looks, I think you have IPE.

Robert

 

[Burl Source]

I found a few good diagrams that shows the difference between "quartersawn" and "rift sawn", so that everyone is on the same sheet of music.

Here is an over simplified explanation of 1/4sawn, rift sawn and flat sawn.
Please excuse the dirty drawing.

I have done a lot of looking on the internet based on the input you guys have given and am 90% sure it is Ipe. The wood is not aromatic. Only very slight oily feel, and matches a lot of photos I found online of Ipe

It seems to have a lot of different names used for it. This is the list I found on one of the importer sites.
Brazilian Walnut / Ipe / Lapacho
Scientific Name:
Canella imbuia / Tabebuia / Tabebuia serratifolia
Other Names and Species:
Amapa
Brazilian Walnut
Cortez
Flor Amarillo
Greenheart
Green Ironwood
Guayacan Polvillo
Hakai
Ipe
Ironwood
Madera Negra
Polvillo
Tabebuia
Tahuari

 

[Phillip Dobson]

Troop,
The guys who did that diagram are wrong. If I ordered 1/4 sawn oak from them and they cut it like their diagram, I would be returning 1/2 of the wood. With oak especially there will be a big difference between the look of rift and quartersawn wood. I know I am just one guy and they are probably a big company. But I'll say it again, they are wrong. Later today I will find diagrams to show how it is supposed to be cut. What they call riftsawn is close to correct quarter sawing, but if they cut it the way they show it would be retarded and would be tons of waste. Sorry if I am making a big deal about this. It's like the experts that say burls are caused by bugs or injuries.

I have to agree with you. That diagram is confusing and wrong. I too would send back most of their "quartersawn" lumber.

The reason the face is called "quatersawn" is because it is what shows when the log is cut into quarters. It is more expensive because it has a very specific look and only eight quatersawn boards come out of each log (assuming the log is small and you want good recovery). In many species, perfectly quartersawn faces will show dramatic medullary ray patterns that will not show up on rift or flat sawn pieces. Quartersawn timbers also have superior strength and movement characteristics.

In short:
Quartersawn - radial (to growth rings)
Flat sawn - tangential
Rift sawn - in between
Through cut - what they call plainsawn (also known as boule-cut). Only one or two boards will be completely quartersawn using this method.

 

[Troop]

Troop,
The guys who did that diagram are wrong....

Wow! Mark, you've got balls; I'll give you that!:thumbup:

 

[Burl Source]

Wow! Mark, you've got balls; I'll give you that!:thumbup:

I hope you didn't think my comments were aimed toward you. If I had someone cut a log the way they showed in the rift sawn diagram I would fire them and deduct the value of the log from their paycheck. Especially with oak. When oak is correctly quartersawn it will cause really cool looking flecks caused by the angle of the cut to the rays in the wood.

Here is a photo of oak flooring. It is 1/4 sawn in a couple center pieces and rift sawn in the others. Big difference in the look and value of the different pieces.

 

[Troop]

Everything's cool brother. Thanks for the education.:thumbup: I really dig the look of quartersawn pieces.

 

[Burl Source]

I have a bit of sycamore I will cut soon to show the difference. Flat sawn it's just plain ugly stuff. Quartersawn looks like snakeskin.

 

[Phil705]

Hopefully attached is a picture of a camp knife handle that I made with Lignum Vitae. It was one of my early efforts, but I don't recall any problems with splintering. Heavy, interesting green tones, ok to work with. Looks pretty good with a red liner.

Phil705
Winthrop WA

 

[Phil705]

Maybe this is a better picture, not great, but better,