"Like leather seats on a tractor"....

[EChoil]

That Chavez is one ugly $500 knife.

People pay for leather seats in that tractor, that's bottom line. For some, determining the quality of a knife is more a checkoff list of retail price, materials and tolerances. For others the criteria are a much more sensory experience.

You can tell who is whom: some talk about steels, lock theory and materials; others speak of ergonomics, appealing lines and what a knife has/will accomplish.

For both it comes down to how one FEELS when in the presence of the knife: the former validates ownership by quoting materials and figures, rarely using the knife but carrying it some. The latter, who may tend to use his knife a little more, hands a knife to another and says, "How does this one feel to you; do you like the way it looks"?

Personally, I'll take a knife that feels good in hand and remains comfortable after hours of work with it. I turn MY nose up at expensive knives of horrible design, some of which can only be described as ugly, which sell mainly due to a buzz-word parts list and boutique pricing.

As to the OP question, if a knife is going to "feel" some way to me it's going to be 'good' or 'bad.' Not 'expensive' or 'inexpensive.' I've never used price as a criterion for quality in a knife--I've seen to many of the Emperors here orating in the streets wearing not one stitch of clothing.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Clothes and shoes are perfect examples of how one can get a feel for and see which ones are cheaper vs more expensive. There's a big difference in the way cheaper materials vs more expensive materials used for these things look and feel. When comparing a pair of shoes which cost $300 to a pair which cost $1500 not many people would have a hard time telling which cost more. This also is extremely true when it comes to the refined design and overall attention to detail. Visually it's extremely easy to tell.

I disagree. I've been to some places that sell clothing/shoes for said prices, and more often than not, I feel that the more expensive clothing/shoes are made from the same materials as the cheaper stuff but stamped with a brand name and given a high price tag...much like certain knives we see.

Even materials that are expensive can still look/feel cheap to some people. For example, fur jackets. Trashy, flashy, and nothing more than a status symbol. It's all personal opinion.

I can wear a thick gold chain that's worth $50,000 but to me that's trashy, and I'd never do such a thing. Perhaps a rapper might thing I look cool, but not I.

 

[EChoil]

Clothes and shoes are perfect examples of how one can get a feel for and see which ones are cheaper vs more expensive. There's a big difference in the way cheaper materials vs more expensive materials used for these things look and feel. When comparing a pair of shoes which cost $300 to a pair which cost $1500 not many people would have a hard time telling which cost more. This also is extremely true when it comes to the refined design and overall attention to detail. Visually it's extremely easy to tell.

Your fatal flaw is you're being too absolute. For many it's not that easy at all.

The clothing thing does offer a pretty good analogy to the subject here, problem is the same things are inherent in fashion/design that run beneath the surface in the knife world.

Clothing and shoes can be ripoffs just like knives can. Everyone knows about the boutique world that relies on brand labels as opposed to true quality. Embellishment/illusion vs. authenticity/classicism--some buy $10 shirts 20 times; some buy $100 shirts once. Both can rationalize that they are being financial.

I think people who collect/carry high-end knives, regardless of others' opinions of same, are going to be quality-sensitive 98% of the time. They are going to be the people who can walk into the clothing boutique or knife store and tell the con-crap from classic quality very quickly.

This sense, unfortunately, is not something one is born with. It is usually a cultivated thing. Even so, it all comes back to subjectivity.

 

[Dddrees]

I disagree. I've been to some places that sell clothing/shoes for said prices, and more often than not, I feel that the more expensive clothing/shoes are made from the same materials as the cheaper stuff but stamped with a brand name and given a high price tag...much like certain knives we see.

Even materials that are expensive can still look/feel cheap to some people. For example, fur jackets. Trashy, flashy, and nothing more than a status symbol. It's all personal opinion.

I can wear a thick gold chain that's worth $50,000 but to me that's trashy, and I'd never do such a thing. Perhaps a rapper might thing I look cool, but not I.

This is often true for designer labels such as Gucci, Prada and so forth. I won't disagree that it isn't possible to pay a lot of money and not get your money's worth. However if one is looking for better quality shoes for example then one really should be looking at brands such as Edward Green, Gaziano & Girling, John Lobb, and St Crispins. There are others but these tend to be mentioned most often when one talks about the upper tier shoemakers. At least in the Ready To Wear bracket that is. Not unlike knives it certainly helps to know what brands actually sell the better quality products. I can tell you from actual experience that there are differences between a $300, a $500, a $700, and a $1500. If for example I handed you shoes from each bracket I would guarantee you would get at least 3 out of 4 of these right. The two you might get wrong would be the one from the $500 and $700 bracket.

 

[EChoil]

This is often true for designer brands such as Gucci, Prada and so forth. I won't disagree that it isn't possible to pay a lot of money and not get your money's worth. However if one is looking for better quality shoes for example then one really should be looking at brands such as Edward Green, Gaziano & Girling, John Lobb, and St Crispins. There are others but these tend to be mentioned most often when one talks about the upper tier shoemakers. At least in the Ready To Wear bracket that is. Not unlike knives it certainly helps to know what brands actually sell the better quality products. I can tell you from actual experience that there are differences between a $300, a $500, a $700, and a $1500. If for example I handed you shoes from each bracket I would guarantee you would get at least 3 out of 4 of these right. The two you might get wrong would be the one from the $500 and $700 bracket.

I can only say to this that there are very few left in the world who can spot shell cordovan and distinguish it from a $19.95 pair of tan Florsheim Crocs. In fact, I could convince many that it's that pair of HushPuppies.

There are so few of that ability that your premise is essentially moot.

 

[Dddrees]

It's not as evident always in pictures as it is in person but here are two examples which I think most can tell a difference. Both of the following are good shoes and in fact both are the same type of shoe however one is more expensive than the the other and I think most can tell which.

 

[Dddrees]

I can only say to this that there are very few left in the world who can spot shell cordovan and distinguish it from a $19.95 pair of tan Florsheim Crocs. In fact, I could convince many that it's that pair of HushPuppies.

There are so few of that ability that your premise is essentially moot.

That maybe true, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to pick out the better pair when both are present and this was my point to begin with.

 

[EChoil]

That maybe true, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to pick out the better pair when both are present and this was my point to begin with.

Do you spend a lot of time with a Brannock Device?

 

[Dddrees]

Do you spend a lot of time with a Brannock Device?

I don't need too as know the size of my foot and the Lasts and sizes of shoes of those shoemakers that work best for me.

 

[blade dude]

This isn't a Sebenza, and I haven't seen anyone carry one before. It's also 250% less.

I saw someone with one yesterday actually. He had seven knives clipped in various pockets though.

 

[Danke42]

So then what makes the Redencion 25% more expensive than a Sebenza?

He sells less of them.

 

[EChoil]

I don't need too as know the size of my foot and the Lasts and sizes of shoes of those shoemakers that work best for me.

Oh, OK. Thought you might sell them....

I think where we differ is that I don't think there are enough people left with such discriminatory perception. I think most are pretty much aboard the disposable, "what's cool" cultural crazes.

I've seen too many people strip their homes of solid wood for the shallow glitz of Home Depot veneer and too many looky-loos purchasing Hollow-Fill, UnderArmor, Kydex and Nikes, all clueless to the greater benefits of down, wool and leather.

Most folks are driven by what's cheapest, faddish and glitziest....not what might be 'best' or of 'classic' (i.e. "long-proven") design.

Back to knives, the same two parties prevail.....

 

[RX-79G]

He sells less of them.

I would someday like to sell a single handmade knife for $3 million, then retire.

 

[marcinek]

He sells less of them.

He'd sell more with an price cut then.

 

[Danke42]

He'd sell more with an price cut then.

His capacity is probably maxed so that'd be a no go.

None of those wide bladed slab sided knives really do it for me but they sure seem popular.

 

[DailyEDC]

I'm no expert, but I don't think the cost of the materials has much to do with the price of the knife or how good it feels. What makes a knife "high end" to me is determined by a few different factors which are:


1. Action with a centered blade and no blade movement with effort, while open or closed.
2. Overall weight balance, or fulcrum
3. Detent tuning...spring tension as well as detent ball size and holes on blade
4. Execution of the washers or bearings, major factor to the overall feel
5. Sounds when opening and closing the knife
6. Detent slop or any play whatsoever when the knife is closed
7. Lock geometry
8. Design Solutions used..for example, I love it when the detent track on the blade is entirely hidden...lots of knives have it exposed
9. And tolerances...it cheapens the knife for me when you can see where the maker was lazy and wanted to save time by eyeballing measurements or not using techniques that ensure precision.
10. Probably a few more factors

My main point is that I think the time invested to ensure precision craftsmanship/well thought out design, whether that be researching/learning to do it right or just using technically sound processes to ensure precision work/functionality....I think it all contributes to the bottom line results and how a knife feels/functions.

Functional Art/Tools is such a cool thing....Take a look at this http://manfredfrank.com there are so many amazing people in this world!

 

[Dddrees]

I'm no expert, but I don't think the cost of the materials has much to do with the price of the knife or how good it feels. What makes a knife "high end" to me is determined by a few different factors which are:


1. Action with a centered blade and no blade movement with effort, while open or closed.
2. Overall weight balance, or fulcrum
3. Detent tuning...spring tension as well as detent ball size and holes on blade
4. Execution of the washers or bearings, major factor to the overall feel
5. Sounds when opening and closing the knife
6. Detent slop or any play whatsoever when the knife is closed
7. Lock geometry
8. Design Solutions used..for example, I love it when the detent track on the blade is entirely hidden...lots of knives have it exposed
9. And tolerances...it cheapens the knife for me when you can see where the maker was lazy and wanted to save time by eyeballing measurements or not using techniques that ensure precision.
10. Probably a few more factors

My main point is that I think the time invested to ensure precision craftsmanship/well thought out design, whether that be researching/learning to do it right or just using technically sound processes to ensure precision work/functionality....I think it all contributes to the bottom line results and how a knife feels/functions.

Functional Art/Tools is such a cool thing....Take a look at this http://manfredfrank.com there are so many amazing people in this world!

Come on, of course cost of materials are factored into the price. They may not be as important to you, but of course all costs are factored into the price.

 

[SALTY]

I think that many things are factored into price ... but high among the factors is what the market will bare.

Here are a couple examples of what I mean by that: Harley Davidson and Emerson, and before anyone flames me, I am a fan of both and own/use both brands.

People poke fun at Harleys by saying that Harley Davidson has perfected the concept of converting gasoline into noise without the unintended side effect of horsepower. I have ridden and owned many a motorcycle that accelerated faster, stopped shorter and handled better - all at significantly less cost. Yet Harley found (created?) a niche, exploited it for economic success (as corporations should, BTW) and people pay the price. In fact, pre-bubble burst, folks ponied up deposits to get on a waiting list to pay full MSRP.

I like Emerson knives and own, well, let's just say far too many. That said, better materials along with better fit and finish can be readily obtained, oftentimes at less retail cost. Little things like Benchmade replacing pocket clips for free and no questions asked warranties by other companies, stellar super-duper and fast customer service that exists in much of the knife industry all would put pressure on Emerson Knives, one would think - yet EKI succeeds. Why? It could be references in Marcinko's earlier books, Ernie's personality and comportment, or maybe the whole High Speed/Low Drag Delta-Sigma-Niner at the Super-Secret Checkpoint SHTF Mission Success dependant on the knife thing that so many knife companies have attempted but certainly not succeeded at like Emerson has. What ever the reason or confluence of multiple reasons may be, people pay the price and EKI, like Harley Davidson, succeed even though they may be arguably bested in quantifiable categories of performance or evaluation by competitors.

Footnote/flame avoidance comment: Did I mention that I am a supporter, fan, owner and user of both Harley Davidson and Emerson?

So, I said all of that to say this: Material, labor, machinery, marketing all factor into price ... but but not so much, IMO, as what the market will bare. A five dollar coffee cup may cost ten dollars if it has the Harley bar & shield on it. An $8 Emerson pocket clip cost $15 if it has the Emerson Pirate logo on it, not because the mark costs an extra seven dollars per piece to apply, but because people will pay it. I know I did.