Limited Edition/Exclusives Knives losing their importance?

DocJD said:
OK , if it ain't true then no hurt feelings . Still , I think maybe you suspect it might be sorta true or why be defensive ?
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Is me not agreeing with you being defense? I don’t think so. You may be right in some cases but for the most part I don’t believe most knife manufactures are here to squeeze out as much profit as they can by using sprints.
 
From a dealer perspective, our approach to exclusives here is we see a niche in the market that hasn't been filled yet and try and lobby the manufacturer to do it. Its not about baiting a sucker, its about getting a product made that didn't exist yet, but people would likely want and enjoy. When that happens (and its successful) everyone wins. Our exclusive SAKs in particular have been very popular, people love neat designs on a neat tool and it helps re-energize that product for some people.
 
I think most knife manufacturers don't look upon sprint runs as a significant profit center. Consider the math:

Let's say Spyderco does a sprint run of a PM2 with upgraded blade and handle materials. Assume that the upgrade in materials increases the base cost of the knife by 30%. I won't even consider higher production costs with super steels, which is a reality that manufacturers have to consider. This sprint run of 600 units sells for 35% more than base model knife. Now put the numbers to it...

PM2 base selling price is $125. Assume material costs are 30% of the selling price of the knife. You have $37.50 in materials in a $125 knife. The sprint run materials cost $48.75 or $11.25 more than the base model.

The sprint PM2 sells for $168.75 with an increased netback of $32.50 per knife. Extended to 600 units, this sprint run netted a whopping $19,500. That ain't bank, folks. Not to mention the increased manufacturing, packaging and marketing costs to accommodate a sprint run that need to be subtracted from that "bounty". If you think that sprint runs net obscene, greed driven profits, I'd like some of what you're smoking. If the slightly improved netback from sprint runs were spread over thousands of units, the $'s would be there to support the "greed" claims...but then, it wouldn't be a sprint run then, would it?

Now that it's clear that sprint runs aren't driven by manufacturer greed, we can determine the real benefit of sprint runs to a manufacturer.

In my opinion sprint runs have value because they create a buzz. They return attention to the entire product catalog. Perhaps a knife shopper will pass on the sprint and go ahead and buy the base model, or notice a model that had never caught their eye before. Us knife buyers are a fickle and faithless lot; we need to constantly have our interests stoked by new shinies. Sprint runs help to keep variety in the release schedule and keep attention on the product line.

Sprint runs also create a favorable connection between the buyer and the manufacturer:

Buyer: "I've always wanted a PM2 with a Vibranium blade and Spyderco just announced a sprint run of 'em this summer!!! I love Spyderco and they must love me back! I think I'll but another Spyderco while I wait..."

See what I mean? It ain't about the dollars and cents directly due to the sprint run though...
 
Hackenslash said:
I think most knife manufacturers don't look upon sprint runs as a significant profit center. Consider the math:

Let's say Spyderco does a sprint run of a PM2 with upgraded blade and handle materials. Assume that the upgrade in materials increases the base cost of the knife by 30%. I won't even consider higher production costs with super steels, which is a reality that manufacturers have to consider. This sprint run of 600 units sells for 35% more than base model knife. Now put the numbers to it...

PM2 base selling price is $125. Assume material costs are 30% of the selling price of the knife. You have $37.50 in materials in a $125 knife. The sprint run materials cost $48.75 or $11.25 more than the base model.

The sprint PM2 sells for $168.75 with an increased netback of $32.50 per knife. Extended to 600 units, this sprint run netted a whopping $19,500. That ain't bank, folks. Not to mention the increased manufacturing, packaging and marketing costs to accommodate a sprint run that need to be subtracted from that "bounty". If you think that sprint runs net obscene, greed driven profits, I'd like some of what you're smoking. If the slightly improved netback from sprint runs were spread over thousands of units, the $'s would be there to support the "greed" claims...but then, it wouldn't be a sprint run then, would it?

Now that it's clear that sprint runs aren't driven by manufacturer greed, we can determine the real benefit of sprint runs to a manufacturer.

In my opinion sprint runs have value because they create a buzz. They return attention to the entire product catalog. Perhaps a knife shopper will pass on the sprint and go ahead and buy the base model, or notice a model that had never caught their eye before. Us knife buyers are a fickle and faithless lot; we need to constantly have our interests stoked by new shinies. Sprint runs help to keep variety in the release schedule and keep attention on the product line.

Sprint runs also create a favorable connection between the buyer and the manufacturer:

Buyer: "I've always wanted a PM2 with a Vibranium blade and Spyderco just announced a sprint run of 'em this summer!!! I love Spyderco and they must love me back! I think I'll but another Spyderco while I wait..."

See what I mean? It ain't about the dollars and cents directly due to the sprint run though...
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I love Spyderco and they must love me back! I think I'll but another Spyderco while I wait..."

Great suggestion!
 
Hickory n steel said:
My advice is to buy cutting tools, not invest in collectibles.
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I don't collect, so I don't get particularly excited about sprint runs. There have a a few cases where I would have preferred the spring run steel. The price generally keeps me away, so more for you. If you do collect knives, I guess it's part of the fun.
 
22-rimfire said:
I don't collect, so I don't get particularly excited about sprint runs. There have a a few cases where I would have preferred the spring run steel. The price generally keeps me away, so more for you. If you do collect knives, I guess it's part of the fun.
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I get the appeal of Sprint runs , collecting, and the excitement of discovery ( how I am with new hotweels and similar die cast cars , when you see something cool randomly hanging in a grocery store it's a fun find ) but I've never collected real knives.
I cant let a good useable knife sitting unused, so what I did collect we're interesting flea market junk.
The stuff was interesting, inexpensive, and didn't have quality to squander by sitting around. Eventually I started to feel like they were an insult to my users and got rid of them all in a yardsale.
 
Yep, I feel I must buy two of every sprint.

I am obsessed with the 0452 so have two of the G10/M390/Gold, 0452Ti, 0452TiBLU. Sucks but one to use and one to collect/keep as a spare.
 
It would be a mistake to think that a company only has one sole reason for doing a sprint run or not. Companies make a business case to base their decision on. A business case is a report with all the pros and cons of a certain decision (and their cost) outlined. Sure, they can stand to make a little bit of extra profit, but that's probably just one of the many reasons to do a sprint run. (Brand engagement and customer retention come to mind as other possible reasons).

Personally, I like that companies do a sprint run every so often. Changing things up every now and again keeps it lively. Of course, for me the sprint runs have been hit or miss. Especially if it's too expensive, I will let it go (even though it can be difficult sometimes). I tell myself that if I regret it, I can always try to buy it secondhand on bladeforums.
 
Hackenslash said:
I think most knife manufacturers don't look upon sprint runs as a significant profit center. Consider the math:

Let's say Spyderco does a sprint run of a PM2 with upgraded blade and handle materials. Assume that the upgrade in materials increases the base cost of the knife by 30%. I won't even consider higher production costs with super steels, which is a reality that manufacturers have to consider. This sprint run of 600 units sells for 35% more than base model knife. Now put the numbers to it...

PM2 base selling price is $125. Assume material costs are 30% of the selling price of the knife. You have $37.50 in materials in a $125 knife. The sprint run materials cost $48.75 or $11.25 more than the base model.

The sprint PM2 sells for $168.75 with an increased netback of $32.50 per knife. Extended to 600 units, this sprint run netted a whopping $19,500. That ain't bank, folks. Not to mention the increased manufacturing, packaging and marketing costs to accommodate a sprint run that need to be subtracted from that "bounty". If you think that sprint runs net obscene, greed driven profits, I'd like some of what you're smoking. If the slightly improved netback from sprint runs were spread over thousands of units, the $'s would be there to support the "greed" claims...but then, it wouldn't be a sprint run then, would it?

Now that it's clear that sprint runs aren't driven by manufacturer greed, we can determine the real benefit of sprint runs to a manufacturer.

In my opinion sprint runs have value because they create a buzz. They return attention to the entire product catalog. Perhaps a knife shopper will pass on the sprint and go ahead and buy the base model, or notice a model that had never caught their eye before. Us knife buyers are a fickle and faithless lot; we need to constantly have our interests stoked by new shinies. Sprint runs help to keep variety in the release schedule and keep attention on the product line.

Sprint runs also create a favorable connection between the buyer and the manufacturer:

Buyer: "I've always wanted a PM2 with a Vibranium blade and Spyderco just announced a sprint run of 'em this summer!!! I love Spyderco and they must love me back! I think I'll but another Spyderco while I wait..."

See what I mean? It ain't about the dollars and cents directly due to the sprint run though...
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It is asinine to draw conclusions based on mere assumptions.

You pulled those "increased material cost" numbers out of nowhere. They mean nothing. We cannot determine if sprint runs really do turn a significantly higher profit without actual numbers from the companies themselves regarding their manufacturing costs.

You could be right, or you could be wrong. We can''t say without concrete, factual data.
 
Also, add in that most of Spyderco sprints are direct requests from dealers (exclusives) or made possible by repeated begging to Sal for a specific knife on the forums. I wanted HAP40, I got HAP40. The classics like the Millie and Delica are 25+ years old and always sell out. Not their fault lol.

Its not like Spyderco doesnt innovate or rest on their laurels cough cough.

Theyre yearly catalog is insane full of unique models with new locks, materials, purpose driven, and collabs.
 
As long as they are cyclical with materials they are creating brand loyalty. For example, a shaman sprint run in cruwear sometime next year. I will not pay exaggerated prices on primary or secondary market. ZT has a different marketing strategy, in that no original knife design stays in production very long. Prices do inflate inexecrably on secondary, while “lesser” or shorter versions continue to be sold for years. Case in point the 301/350; not the same knife, but only so many people want a blade larger than 3.5.” On the other hand, they have enough special/limited editions on hand that the middle of their catalogue is always full.
 
IMO, if the knives is a continual high sales seller, no company in their right mind would stop that revenue. Normally, for tech, if the new model is going to be popular, the prices are high during the introduction, soon lower to a stable, more reasonable price, slowly decline, and if the supply drops to match the lowered demand, prices can often rise again because of the rarity.

This sometimes happens over decades. A good company should tweak its business plan pertaining to the model depending on where in that pricing line the product is.

One example of this pricing change would be a car, maybe a 1957 Chevy, which today might be expensive to find parts for or to find in like-new condition. In 1956 it might have sold for over MSRP, then came down a little for the next couple years, and possibly not worth much in 1967.

Margin wise, I think the Sprint runs help maintain tooling, but increase the rarity end of the price spectrum. Dealer exclusive wise, the dealer takes the risk out of the customization by paying for all of the run up front. Additionally, limited editions providing good will with customers and collectors (with collectors probably counting for the majority of the higher end purchases anyway).

Sounds like a good business decision all around.
 
Cutlover said:
It is asinine to draw conclusions based on mere assumptions.

You pulled those "increased material cost" numbers out of nowhere. They mean nothing. We cannot determine if sprint runs really do turn a significantly higher profit without actual numbers from the companies themselves regarding their manufacturing costs.

You could be right, or you could be wrong. We can''t say without concrete, factual data.
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I used logical assumptions to illustrate a valid point. You used...nothing to prove...nothing? It was obvious that my assumptions were hypothetical; there was a larger and more salient point.

Throw in any reasonable numbers you want and my extrapolation is still supported by simple math. Numbers don't lie, no matter how you choose to massage them. Apply any reasonable parameter and limited production numbers will never yield significant windfall profit. That was the point of my entire post, which you apparently missed. The key is "production units", a fairly basic manufacturing concept.
 
Sure you have to buy multiples.
Compare the original versions with today's versions.
Everything get's better - so it changes.
The value of a collection is pretty subjective - no doubt it has a certain market value.
If you are in the market for "only" a cutting tool, no need to buy more than one.
But then we are here for other reasons.
Well at least I am. ;)
 
I think the sprints such as with Spyderco are simply done on behalf of the dealer and I feel sure Spyderco makes money, but it might not be the return that they would normally expect. Some are really expensive to me and I have to think Spyderco makes money on them.

Added: I think Hackenslash generally has it right on sprint runs from a manufacturer's point of view. They also allow the manufacturer to try something new to "test the waters" a bit without a significant in a standard production run.
 
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I have a question originating in the limited production run model of production. I bought a knife from CKF which–as far as I know–manufactures and sells knives at limited numbers and then may never reproduce that model. The threads of a handle screw stripped, the warranty has ended and although the company representative I exchanged emails with was helpful and tried to locate replacement screws (he said he contacted the OEM) and I have a knife that I really wouldn't want to use as the screw comes lose. I locktited it in place but do not have much confidence if that holding during use and were the screw to fall out the nut would go next and then the backspacer would spin almost unimpeded. What to do?
 
CPP said:
I have a question originating in the limited production run model of production. I bought a knife from CKF which–as far as I know–manufactures and sells knives at limited numbers and then may never reproduce that model. The threads of a handle screw stripped, the warranty has ended and although the company representative I exchanged emails with was helpful and tried to locate replacement screws (he said he contacted the OEM) and I have a knife that I really wouldn't want to use as the screw comes lose. I locktited it in place but do not have much confidence if that holding during use and were the screw to fall out the nut would go next and then the backspacer would spin almost unimpeded. What to do?
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I'd take the screw to a hardware store (a hardcore hardware store, not a Home Depot type) and get them to gauge the screw for you. Once you know the size and thread spacing of the screw, you can order a pack of replacement screws from an online vendor (because the hardware store probably won't have something that small in stock).
 
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