Liner Lock Failure-What do I do Know?

J

jc

Joined
Oct 12, 1998
Messages
153
Liner Lock Failure-What do I do NOW? Sorry, but my spelling is kinda off today!

Today turned out to be a real bummer when the liner lock on a well known $150+ knife failed after a small amount of pressure was placed on the spine. The resulting injury to my hand required a trip to the ER and 16 stitches.

What course of action should I take? I'm not out to sue anyone as I have medical insurance. I would like to recoup any co payment and get all $ spent on the knife (which had been replaced by the manufacturer for a bad liner lock--guess I shouldn't have trusted this new knife even though it passed the FAQ Liner lock tests a few weeks ago).

I have been collecting knives for about 10 yrs and have never required stitches from a cut while handling any of my knives. I was fortunate not to cut any tendons (even though I could see one doing its thing--quite a sight!).

Any input would be appreciated. Also, this wasn't a Benchmade knife. I will post the maker after I investigate this matter further. One good thing is now I'll have to invest in a small fixed blade as I have little trust in folding knives at the moment (except for my HALOs and Sebenza).

Thanks

jc



[This message has been edited by jc (edited 10 December 1999).]
 
JC--really sorry to hear about your hand. You didn't quite mention what you were doing with the knife when the liner lock failed? Did I understand that the mfg has already replaced the faulty liner lock?
 
You know, one thing that I should probably put in the liner lock FAQ. Another reason I don't trust liner locks anymore is that I've had a liner lock that had passed the tests for YEARS, all of a sudden start failing. Bummer that your knife passed the tests and then failed in real life.

I don't think I mention any torquing tests in the liner lock FAQ. Did you torque the knife at all when the failure occurred?

thanks,

Joe
 
I had the knife in my left hand and used my right hand to jiggle the blade vertically with very little blade torquing--checking for play/slippage at the lock. It failed under very little pressure. In other words, I was not yanking the crap out of it. The pivot was not loose and the knife was not dirty. I should have had a glove on when doing this, but really didn't think a failure would occur. Regardless, the lock should not have failed. I learned one thing. It doesn't take much pressure for a sharp knife to cut thru flesh!!LOL! Ouch!

jc



[This message has been edited by jc (edited 10 December 1999).]
 
IMO, this is an illustration of this fact: Don't trust any liner locks.

------------------
Megafolder Fans Unite!

Mike Melone

"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." Thomas Jefferson


 
If you're going to trust a lock you need to be aware of it's potential failure modes. Most seem to rely upon the handle being rigid in addition to controlling tolerances of the lock interface, an assumption that isn't met in all cases. From what I've seen a twist lock is the most robust, and even then I've used slipjoint folders for so many years that I instinctively try to avoid putting my fingers in harm's way.
 
I've read here that many people don't trust their liner-locks. Personally I really like the liner-lock design, but I've only been buying knives for about a year. What type of locking mech. do you prefer? I know that fixed blades are going to be the "best" because they don't fold, but at my work place and in school, I don't think a fixed blade would be appropriate. So what lock do you guys like?

Thanks,
Mitch
 
IMHO

Trusting any style of lock on a folding knife is something like depending on a firearm safety device. Very unwise. If you are going to use a folder then take care to keep the pressure on the front of the blade not the back.

jc. I'm sorry to hear about the misshap. Please don't take this in the wrong way. I just a little tired of listening to makers (production and custom) focusing on the latest folder locking gaget. Shame on them for encouraging unsafe knife practices.



[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 10 December 1999).]
 
You know, Not2Sharp, my uncle used to have all of the safeties on his hunting shotguns disabled on the theory that anyone using one would KNOW that it was off safety. I was never certain about the theory, but he never had anyone shot by accident.

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller
Arlington, Virginia

 
AMEN not2sharp,

I think folders are really neat and I love all the talk about the latest gadgets. I never tire of checking out the latest ideas and products. I think that is part of the collectability factor.

BUT-- never forget-- folders are folders with moving and wearing parts. They can all be broken, some quicker than others.

For this reason I think slip joints are safer, because you know you can't put preasure on the spine. It makes you think of how you use it. We start thinking some lock-up devices are unbreakable, that's when we get into trouble.


John Yeackley



[This message has been edited by John Yeackley (edited 10 December 1999).]
 
I do believe some linerlocks that I have would fail if tested to failure in their open position. By this I mean the blade would not close up. The liner would move to the right. So these would be safe. I have had quite a few that would fail by closing and I would not trust them. Then quite few including one of the safe ones came new with liner falling in the middle of the tang. Due hazards of purchasing linerlocks over the net, I tend to avoid them now.
 
I also feel that any folding knife has the potential to fold up on your hand. That's why I had Pat Crawford put modified blades on my two KFFs.

The blades have an extra 1/2" of unground edge at the pivot end of the blade. The KFF has a very deep finger cutout which keeps your index finger securely locked in place.

If the blade were to close up on your hand, the unground edge will contact your finger instead of the sharp edge.

Just my solution to the folding knife problem.

Axel
 
JC, when do you anticipate posting the make of knife?

I have a feeling it's a MT Socom (mini), I just emailed someone about theirs for sale although I'm hesitant due to some of the other member's postings re: lockup failure on this knife.

Please post the maker when possible, it may save someone else's fingers. :0
 
I actually prefer well-made lockback knives to most liner locks.

Even when I was a kid and snuck and bought my first lockback (a pretty good quality Seki-made Buck 110 knockoff during the 1970s) I instinctively knew even a locking folder is still just a folder and simply viewed the locking mechanism as a safety feature during normal use. That is, I never thought about using it to stab, twist, etc.

I can see where if a liner lock fails, it's much easier by the simple weight of the blade to close on the hand. There is no back spring as in a lock back. And although the backspring on a lockback is more relaxed than on a slipjoint (like an SAK), at least it is there as a bit of extra support.
Jim
 
If I may ask, what was the knife that folded on you?

As an aside, I was reading Tactical Knives and noted that the folding Bowie or whatever by Bob Dosier uses a liner lock. Interesting, no?

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller
Arlington, Virginia

 
JC I'M SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR HAND. UP UNTIL NOW I'VE TRUSTED MY LINER LOCK BUT AFTER READING SOME OF THE POSTS I THINK I HAVE JUST BEEN LUCKY. MY FATHER TAUGHT ME KNIFE SAFETY AS WELL AS FIREARMS SAFETY, I SHOULD KNOW BETTER. I GUESS I LEARNED FROM YOUR ACCIDENT NOT TO TRUST ANY FOLDER.
smile.gif

 
Well, I would try to get a refund I guess.

I never trusted liner lockes. That's why I don't own any. I agree about slipjoints; on the other hand, someone who is properly trained now has a little added safety. That's why I said to get children non-locking folders first (in another thread obviously). Also, if not for locks, the only advancements would be in materials. This gives companies something to comprete about. I just hope we all learn something from the follies of others, be it involving knife failures, climbing mishaps, etc.

Howie
 
BTTT.

So, what liner-lock failed, jc? I'm really sorry to hear about it.

I sort of agree with the person above that liked to use just slip-joint folders instead of any locking folder; that's all I have carried on a regular basis, up until about a year ago. Then I got hooked on the 'hi-tech' (?) folders (a.k.a. erroneously as "tactical" folders). But, I still only carry one liner-lock, and that is the Military. I picked it up because of the pronounced finger-choil on the blade (like someone's KFF above, sort of). I figured if I used it with my finger in the choil, like I almost always do, it was less likely to fold and slice. Man, I sure hope it wasn't the Military that sliced you.

Personally, I'm starting to lean more and more toward the non-folding blades for major utility, with a little folder for use around the sheep. I have just adjusted my daily clothing to allow for covert carry, since I've heard fixed bladed knives are illegal for concealed carry around here. The only folder that I will trust implicitly is my BM 710, although I have heard of even one of those failing at least once (don't know the exact failure mode, though).

------------------
"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
St. Mary's County, Republik of Marilundt

 
i'm with you j.c. i got four stitches from my knife. i bet i know what brand it is. i didnt have insurance at the time and it set me back seven hundred. a message i learned was NEVER, NEVER trust a linerlock or any folding knife. i still like to look at them, but when it comes down to it i buy fixed blades now. as i bought a trailmaser and a basic#5 scince then. guys and gals be careful!! by the way all my teachers used to tell me i used run on sentences but i really dont understand why maybe they just liked to pick on me.
 
I'm lol Salamander
smile.gif
! Liner locks, as well made as they can be (as was mentioned above), are still subject to wear-related threats to reliability. My Gerber Applegate failed on me once and I was slightly upsetted by the serrations in my muscle tissue as you might imagine. I hear your pain. I don't know if it's any consolation, but at least locking mechanisms are improving as time goes by. Rekat and BM are almost there by creating knives that defy folder nature by becoming more reliable with wear. I hope everything works out for you. Professor.
 
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