Liner lock knife in any high stress life or death type situation

I'm with Normark. The only knife that I trust 100% are fixed blades. I don't even consider using folders for SD. The only exception to that would be a butterfly knife.
 
How many liner locks from real (i.e. not off-shore design knock-off) manufacturers have been made? A whole lot, I'd guess, yet over the internet, word-of-mouth, etc, there aren't that many stories about liner lock failure, not to say it doesn't happen.

I'd figure with the huge numbers of liner lock equipped knives made, if the design was so flawed, there would be many more failure reports, especially over the various internet based forums.

--dan
 
I've made linerlocks from custom makers such as Terzuola and Duncan, as well as production ones from CRKT and Emerson fail with both light and hard spine whacks and continuous pressure in both controlled experiment settings and in normal usage.

Edge-directed force, no. That's what the stop pin is for...

But keep in mind that many of those above spine-directed force failures were during NORMAL usage. Some of these cases included twisting and wiggling when the blade was hung up in dense material, and one case included wiggling it out of a stuck tree branch (I was cleaning off a walking stick) and having the blade accidentally fly back and hit the spine on a neighboring branch.

I am a huge proponent of not using linerlocks in anything more heavy than light cutting. It isn't a flawed design per se; it just isn't very good in particular situations.

-j
 
The Liner-lock is my very least preferred lock. I don't buy them anymore because there are better locks available.

As for the "a fixed blade is better than any folder" argument--that's simply not always true.

Which would you choose, a typical plastic handle steak-knife like the ones found in most American kitchens (yes, it's a fixed-blade), or a Spyderco Chinook?

Allen.
 
sph3ric pyramid said:
Just FYI, the compression lock really isn't a liner-lock variant, the way it works and is implemented is totally different, though on the surface it looks similar.

In a life or death situation, I'd prefer a fixed blade first and foremost. Then a balisong. Then maybe the AXIS-lock or compression lock, followed by a lock-back (among the more popular lock formats). A production liner-lock would be lower on the list, although reliable production liner-locks certainly exist.

Edited: Completely forgot about balis.
Click to expand...

AXIS lock will hold several hundred pounds as will a compression lock.

A balisong's "lock" is only as strong as your hand.
 
Not true.

On every butterfly knife I've ever seen, you can lock the handles together with the latch while the blade is deployed.

I think the Spyderfly cannot however.

Allen.
 
The Spyderfly does not lock open.

Some butterfly knives are latchless. Obviously, those don't lock open either.

In my experience sparring, I've seen most every style of lock I've tried fail in combat.

In my experience, lock-backs are the worst.

I have experienced the lock on my AFCK trainer, a liner lock, fail -- though not very often.

And I've had "rolling locks" fail on me too, though I haven't tried an axis-locked trainer sparring yet.
 
Keep in mind that when people talk about how many hundred pounds it takes to break a given lock, I'm sure that those numbers are true. I've seen pictures -- we all have -- of folding knives held in fixtures with hundreds of pounds of weight suspended from the blade. I don't doubt that those pictures are true.

But that's a static loads. In sparring (or fighting), when two blades hit, that is very unlikely to be hundreds of pounds of force. But, whatever force it is is an impulse load and that is very different from a static load. It's also a very precussive impulse. It sends a shock through the structure and mechanism that is dramatically different than a static load. It literally makes the mechanisms bounce around. And that can lead to the lock releasing with substantially less than hundreds of pounds. (The classic, if controversial and often improperly conducted, "spine whack test" is an effort to introduce an impulse.)

Twisting is a major enemy of folding knife locks. The alternative is a knife such as a Emerson or Strider which is very stiff, yes, but also very heavy. I've seen some liner locks which seem quite reliable to me, but you'd literally need a pry bar to get the thing unlocked in normal use. So, there's a tradeoff.
 
That's very sobering info.

There are so many great small FB's out there, that are like a folder size when opened. And there are plenty of ways to carry them, in addition to a good folder.
 
I'd probably go for a fixed blade just for the size and dependability. Second to that would be a balisong. Probably the most secure locker, and I think you could intimidate a fair amount of punks if you were nifty with it. Their train of thought being if you can whip it out like that you can fight with it. :)
 
I'd trust my Striders as well as any fixed blade. The AR and SnG are the strongest knives I've ever seen, and I've seen plenty. Ordinary liner locks, axis locks, compression locks, ball-bearing locks don't even compare. Are they worth $400.00? When your life is on the line, absolutely!
 
When in a "life or death" situation (Personal Protection presumeably), do not look at the locking mechanism and their "load" capabilities alone. Pay close attention to the way you hold your knife. Especially in a high speed situation where you cannot always control the circumstances. I have caused many liner locks to fail, both from customs and production models, while holding them in the modified sabre grip. The forefinger, while convulsively wedged into the finger groove can cause for the liner to move while engaging in practice targets. The thumb, while in the hammer grip, can cause for the AXIS lock mechanism to disengage unintentionally. This is so true when thrusting, twisting and extracting from heavy practice dummys. The same has resulted from Rolling Locks as well.

There is no easy solution here. And way too many variables in design, ergonomics, locking mechanisms, personal hand size, grip styles, environment, etc. Go with a fixed blade design.

N2
 
balisong. No folder has a better mechanism to protect the fingers than a solidly made balisong. The mech. is simple, strong and secure.
 
Gol,
I've sparred at length many times with the Gunting(CompressionLock),it hasn't failed . Had liner fail a long time ago don't even remember who manf.it.
I just have no faith in any liner,saw where forum member put his Top's Mag. folder thu some tough stuff & it never failed.Perhaps ,Top's & Striders are different.
Jim
 
I have thrown liner, leverlocks, and an axislock at a wooden target. All three locks have failed. It takes a lot of force to stick the knife into the target. But I'm curious, would some of you that use your folders for SD even consider stabbing an assailant compared to slashing him/her? :confused:
 
I agree with many of the previous posts - twisting will cause your finger to inadvertantly open the linerlock or the framelock. The linerlocks are the most susceptible to this because because they are easy to activate and some have a long running liner with much "purchase" for the finger. Makes it easy to operate, but also easy to misuse or twist open. For a secure lockup, I would recommend the Sebenza framelock. But even with the Sebenza, as with the linerlocks as well, grip is important. If you grip the Sebenza so that your index finger is in the scallops at the front of the scales (where the guard would be on a fixed blade) it cannot be twisted open because the framelock stops short of that area. The Sebenza is made for the "knife guy" and is not a gentlemean's knife. Some have trouble unlocking it even when they want to, and so they have them customized for smoother operation. Having collected and used different knives for many years, the Sebenza winds up my knife of choice. Chris Reeve put much forethought into this design and his business is built upon this folder. If you don't find the Sebenza you want in stock, there is a three month backorder from the factory - one year for Damascus.
 
Not all liner locks are built equally.
I own a Jot Singh Khalsa (sp?) Spyderco model,
and the way it's designed keeps your fingers off of the lock.
Unfortunately, this knife was never well received due to it's
unconventional shape.
 
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