Liner locks- why?

Because, as long as you don’t abuse them like an idiot, they’re perfectly fine locks.
That's my take. Spine wacks? I chuckle at that. I would never do that. I use my folders as if there is no lock, so I have no problem with liner locks. My dominant day to day knife is a middle sized SAK with only spring tension to lock it and I have no problems with it what so ever. People are really hung up on this lock thing.

I have seen people break a hickory axe handle using one to chop. Does that mean I won't ever buy or use an axe that has a hickory or wood handle? Same with sledge hammers.....
 
One of the best features of a liner lock is the ability to release it with one hand, easily!

 
The stigma is usually due to really cheap or badly made liner locks. I've had some that were one or the other. Super cheap or just poorly designed. I have some that are superior to anything like those. And even make me amazed how good they are vs a frame lock.

So as long as your maker or factory knows what they are doing there won't be any issues. That said... These are flippin knives. Not hard use abuse takers. Use them for what they were ment for. Humans are strange beings.
 
Liner locks are my favorite for EDC. If I had to trust my fingers to a lock, I would choose something different. Probably the Tri-Ad lock or the Ball lock.
I don't normally work a tip aggressively such that significant pressure is applied to a lock. Therefore, the liner lock's relative weakness and unreliability doesn't matter. Of course I also choose better made liner locks.
I like the action of a liner lock; the engagement of the lock upon opening and the engagement of the ball detent upon closing.
 
Imagine growing up in the days of no knife locks on Case Trappers and Stockmans, etc. Spyderco does an excellent liner lock in their Military model and though the design is almost 30 years old, it's still a formidable cutting tool just the way it sits.

Common sense here folks.
I grew up in those days 91bravo and I still have All my fingers ;). All my knives would have failed the Spine Whack Test :eek:.
 
I prefer lock backs and frame locks to liner locks, but I think my preference is mostly due to perception. The lock backs and frame locks I have are generally thicker and engage the blade stock more fully than the liner locks I have played around with with (held them and looked at how they work, but don't own any). I can see that liner locks, while generally thinner than I prefer, lock up just as well as anything else. I just prefer knowing there is a stout looking piece of metal against the blade rather than a flimsy looking sheet of metal. when it comes to folders, a locking back knife is my preference. A frame lock is okay. I have never met a liner lock I could not pass up. In fact, I prefer most slip joints to liner locks. And while I can appreciate a knife I can open and close with one hand, it is not a requirement for me.
 
made right and used right, they are a strong lock.

I like 'em but I also like about every other lock.
 
I'll do you one worse...

Folks are still making SLIP JOINT knives, for corn's sake. Why, why, why?

I mean, with all of these lock configurations available to makers, why leave each and every one of them out of your design?

If you don't trust your mini AFCK, message me and I'll swap you for a terrific back lock.

I like the liner lock for ease of use, ease of maintenance, and that they stay pretty much an invisible feature.
 
I don't feel confident when my finger rests on the lock release mechanism as is the case on many liner locks. Also, I prefer a folding knife that will return to the closed position when slightly opened and released, like a slip joint or lock back. That being said, my two liner lock knives seem to work fine despite my reservations, at least until I have to stab a car door. When that day comes, I'll report back.
 
I’ve never had a liner lock fail or any kind of problems with them. I’ve never seen anyone else have failures or problems. But I have seen some very idiotic tests that go beyond any reasonable manner to see if they can fail. I’ve also known a few people that can ruin an anvil with a rubber mallet so they are out there.
That statement for the most part is true but they (Bad Liner Locks) are out there. Example, My son brought this to me with the liner lock stuck all the way over to the right so I took it away and gave him a Kershaw I had laying around. Knowing it was a POS I used it to cut open some mattresses and had it pop the liner lock a couple of times under Normal use. If I pinch grip the butt of the knife with two fingers and spine TAP it lightly it will close every time. I would post a quick vid but I'm not technologically advanced enough with Imgur yet :confused:.
YEa4oZ6.jpg
PpqTQOH.jpg
 
I was raised using a slip joint knife, a knifes lock is an added safety that is not to replace what's between your ears.

So I've never had a lock failure unless I wanted to purposely cause it or the cheap liner/frame locks got stuck when the knife opened due to poor tolerances when it was made.
 
That statement for the most part is true but they (Bad Liner Locks) are out there. Example, My son brought this to me with the liner lock stuck all the way over to the right so I took it away and gave him a Kershaw I had laying around. Knowing it was a POS I used it to cut open some mattresses and had it pop the liner lock a couple of times under Normal use. If I pinch grip the butt of the knife with two fingers and spine TAP it lightly it will close every time. I would post a quick vid but I'm not technologically advanced enough with Imgur yet :confused:.
YEa4oZ6.jpg
PpqTQOH.jpg
Looks like the pivot is loose. But also looks like it's poorly made.
 
I was also raised on slip-joints. Never had any problems.

My favorite knives are my old Emersons, '98 to early '00s with the thin liners. They consistantly lockup solid for normal use and have never failed. And years ago I did stab a car door at the target range with a CQC-7 to see how it would do, and no problem.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
___
I think the real question is: what kind of dumb-fu(k spine whacks a knife? That's like testing if your air-bags work by ramming your car into a tree.
 
Last edited:
I need to do a write up and pictures of my two cheap-o S&W tactical liner locks. They have been through a lot, lol. They have never failed.
 
That statement for the most part is true but they (Bad Liner Locks) are out there. Example, My son brought this to me with the liner lock stuck all the way over to the right so I took it away and gave him a Kershaw I had laying around. Knowing it was a POS I used it to cut open some mattresses and had it pop the liner lock a couple of times under Normal use. If I pinch grip the butt of the knife with two fingers and spine TAP it lightly it will close every time. I would post a quick vid but I'm not technologically advanced enough with Imgur yet :confused:.
YEa4oZ6.jpg
PpqTQOH.jpg
I can see why. The pivot is loose and that is usually what happens. Probably could have been fixed with some blue locktite and adjusted before it got that bad. All tools need some maintenance and proper care to stay in top form.
 
I can see why. The pivot is loose and that is usually what happens. Probably could have been fixed with some blue locktite and adjusted before it got that bad. All tools need some maintenance and proper care to stay in top form.
No one in their right mind would try to salvage this knife:eek:. If you look closely at the nylon washers you will see that they are the same thickness as the liner lock itself allowing for the lock to slide over allowing the blade to close. I keep it around to use as an example of a poor liner lock knife. Super glueing it shut would be a better choice than blue loctite.
 
I have not posted the below in a long, long while and some links might be broken, but here goes for those interested in learning more on this lock.

My framelock post

This is a compilation of resources and discussion on angles, lock interface, steel vs. ti etc. that I have compiled over the years.

Here are some comments from a very well and respected maker on the forums that has tested numerous locks. I will not post his name as this was a private conversation and let’s keep it that way.

"I've done some steel inserts in mine. The wear rates are not far off from titanium to steel. Both wear very well. Heat anodizing helps to form a deeper near ceramic hardness on the titanium since heating it by a torch anodizes the ti from the inside out as opposed to using a DC current which is from the outside in or the outside layer only. That ceramic hard oxide layer wears pretty well against even the hardest blades. If it didn't people would have stopped using ti a long time ago.

The real factors as I see it is impact strength not wear resistance. In my own testing for Kershaw and other companies that sent me product to beat the snot out of on their behalf I found that the steel frame knives held up better to sudden shock impacts like spine and overstrike whacking as opposed to the softer ti which could indent easier and deeper scarring the surfaces more. So to me this is the key factor behind it but there is a draw back since steel is less forgiving than titanium. Ti tends to gall or stick to itself and dissimilar metals and this sticking effect has been seen forever by makers as a real benefit.

Not to sound bad but you can be off some on contact angle and get by with it by using ti since it can make up for your short fallings here whereas steel would just slide right off the contact. Steel will demand the contacts be spot on and if they are not well, you'll see locks sliding off the contact toward release easier than ti when the contact angle is not right.

I've used inserts of steel in a couple folders I did a while back. To me having to do them the way I did they were more trouble than they were worth. Most of my folders give me very little trouble as it is. However, I am low key and not selling what is being marketed as a 'hard use' knife either. We'll see how long this lasts but it could be the beginnings of a trend in the hard use category if people start testing them and find they hold up better. It will depend on the steel used. I really fail to see much benefit if the steel they are using is just 410 stainless at 45 Rockwell. Ti is 39 Rockwell or so and although softer by quite a bit technically it wears at such a slow rate that in normal use most folks are not going to notice any diff or benefit to this insert at all. It’s just the guys beating on them that will pick up on it probably.
 
Now that goes to another issue. What happens when the insert dislodges or falls out? The screws will have to be very secure for some of these guys beating on them and if they think the knife is supposed to take it they will do that. Again time will tell. My thoughts are that overall there are some benefits from the stand point of repairs.

It’s much easier to replace an insert to refresh a lock that has worked its way all the way across the contact. This beats the hell out of making a whole new lock or peening the contact like Emerson, Kershaw and many other companies do to repair theirs. Don't get me wrong that’s an old cutler trick as old as the liner lock itself and it works. Heck many makers do it as a part of the process along with heat treating because they believe peening compresses the molecules making it denser so it wears better.

The point is that is not as precise as people like to be whereas a new insert would be, well, new and just like it was before theoretically. It may even be something the user can do themselves in the field or at home. We'll just have to see how this develops. "

:peening the contact is a technique used by cutlers to 'refresh' the actual physical contact area on the lock where it connects to and wears against the blade in use. Since the lock is technically supposed to connect and support the blade at the bottom of the lock at the point far enough away from the mid line of the pivot barrel or pin to prevent 'blade roll', (bottom being the area many refer to as the top since its up by the thumb grooves where one depresses the lock to release and free up the blade to close it. Think bottom of the blade when opened and that is technically the bottom of the knife and the where the edge runs with the spine of the blade when opened being at the bottom running along the full length of the folder)

So again since the lock connects at the bottom you have a triad or three points to support the blade when opened. The stop, the pivot in the middle and the lock. If the blade connected to the lock more in the middle or at the top of the lock down where the detent is on most then you would experience blade roll. This is when you have vertical type play but what happens is the blade actually rolls on the lock because the lock connects in the wrong place.

The lock should also be flat not angled at a pitch like the contact is on the blade. Some makers make them and the blade is not quite right so they adjust the lock to fit the blade instead of the blade to fit the lock. This is incorrect and it can cause a 'stepped' or angled pitch to be formed on the lock and that in conjunction with a pitch on the blade is a sure fire way to lead to lock defeats.

When a lock wears and works its way across the tang to the opposite side liner or when it develops blade play many times the maker or the manufacturer will correct this not by bumping up the size of the stop pin but by peening the contact area. This again if you picture it is the area showing signs of wear marks on the lock itself and it should be somewhere on the bottom third of the lock far enough from the mid line of the pivot to make a rock solid contact for no play in the blade. Peening means a ball peen hammer and a 3/32 flat end punch placed precisely at a the area just to the left of the contact on a right handed knife. You swing the hammer hitting the punch so it physically 'squishes' out the contact more toward the blade. When done this creates a little 'bubble' sticking out just a few thousandths of an inch and it refreshes the contact as well as compresses the material. This can be done on steel, ti or brass locks and requires different touches or pressures to do it right. It’s been done on compression locks and lock backs also to peen the usually softer area of the rocker arm just a micron or two to adjust the lock for fit before they ship it out the door.

Anodized ti is usually surface only. Heating with a torch usually brings the ti lock contact up to a straw colour or at the least a cherry red orange colour. Letting it cool on its own and repeating this three times builds up quite a bit of anodizing that at times can be resistant to even bead blasting it off and it can harden the metal to the point that it is much more wear resistant in that spot that was heated. Most are done and then blasted afterwards cleaning off the surface that is seen. Others simply don't treat it knowing that titanium is technically a 'self healing' metal that creates an oxide layer on its own as soon as fresh ti is exposed to oxygen. This is true by the way and why ti is resistant to all kinds of corrosion. It’s that oxide layer that forms a barrier between the ti and the atmosphere sealing it off that makes it so resistant to it. Heat and electric current simply stack on layers of this seal and the light refracting off those multi layers is why we see colours. You actually would have to read some of the tech manuals on that to get the full jist. I'll stick with a nut shell description.

Correction. Steel would probably have been dinged also just not as bad and this depends as you said earlier on type of steel, how hard it was set at and so on. Steel as I said requires that things be just so. I repair a lot of knives and most are liner type locks of the thinner type. These wear and indent and even in steel. They also of steel tend to be easier to find fault in contact angles. For example you see a few knives with steep pitch angle contacts 12 degrees or more and to try this with steel will surely cause the locks to defeat with a sharp tap to the spine. Most steel locks need a pitch of 7 to 8 degrees max to work. 10 or above is really pushing it and even Spyderco walks that fine line at times as I see plenty of Military folders with locks that slide toward release back to the flatter area on the blade contact. This with simple spine pressure from my hands so there is no telling how that would go for the user if it was a sharp blow to the spine. "
 
Back
Top