Linerlock with pinned pivot?

[aarongough]

Hey guys!
I'm curious about whether it's possible to make a linerlock with a pinned pivot, in much the same way that one might make a barlow style knife. I see most slipjoints and so on being made with pins rather than screws, but I've never seen a linerlock with pinned construction that I'm aware of so I'm curious if there's some reason that I'm missing.

I like the idea of blending a more modern lock type with the minimalism of pinned construction, particularly if the knife had bolsters and the pin could be blended into them perfectly...

-Aaron

 

[12345678910]

I would think you would regret that

I have seen some that looked like it, but the working guts were fitted and screwed together

The outer scales were glued and put on with pretty pins.

 

[aarongough]

I would think you would regret that

I have seen some that looked like it, but the working guts were fitted and screwed together

The outer scales were glued and put on with pretty pins.

How come? not sure if I'm missing something silly here, but I get the impression it might work out well...

 

[Frank Niro]

Hi Aaron. Sure you can do it that way and I did for the first one or two. It sure was a bad thing though when I had to take it apart. I also found that the folder without the screws was not considered to be a liner lock. It was a lock back or slip joint. About the same time a maker friend of mine started into the liner lock thing and he just happened to want the same effect with no screws. He already was known a bit for his fine work but found these just weren't acceptable as such. If you look at liner locks you will see a marked difference in their shapes and sizes and "show" so very different than the slip joints and lock backs. On the other side these days it is how good it is and so do what you please and you might impress. Tonight I finished a folding fish knife for one of my grandson's companions (boy does she love to fish!) it doesn't have a thumb stud. It has a nail nick. I have done a couple of liner locks with hidden screws , so the no interference on the surface was there as you seem to want. You are doing some very nice work, just continue doing that as you see will work for you. It will be good. Frank

 

[Gody]

It can be done but I think the key issue would be the lack of adjustment possibilities. If I were to try this, I think I would use a bushing that is just a tad (probably around 5/10000 of an inch) thicker than the blade and washers combined. The use of a bushing will prevent the liners from pinching the blade, but of course it will also cause blade play unless the fit is absolutely spot on.

It won't be the easiest knife to make, but it could be done.

Brian

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Several US cutlery companies made liner locks this way 40 years ago. I see no reason you couldn't do it- but I have never made a liner lock, and I never will.

 

[Chuck Gedraitis Knives]

Koji Hara makes pinned together liner locks.

 

[Bob Ohlemann]

Aaron, if you don't have it, you should search the web for a copy of Bob Terzuola - The Tactical Folding Knife (or you can usually find a print copy on Ebay in the $200-400 range). I found a .pdf copy and it is an amazing resource for liner locks. He discusses the pinning vs screwing assembly.

Bob

 

[Calvin Robinson]

Hey guys!
I'm curious about whether it's possible to make a linerlock with a pinned pivot, in much the same way that one might make a barlow style knife. I see most slipjoints and so on being made with pins rather than screws, but I've never seen a linerlock with pinned construction that I'm aware of so I'm curious if there's some reason that I'm missing.

I like the idea of blending a more modern lock type with the minimalism of pinned construction, particularly if the knife had bolsters and the pin could be blended into them perfectly...

-Aaron

Aaron,
Google, Bradley's Blades,Gayle Bradley makes pinned together liner lock knives only they are not liner locks they have a lock inlayed that works like a liner lock. And they are beautiful.

 

[aarongough]

Hi Aaron. Sure you can do it that way and I did for the first one or two. It sure was a bad thing though when I had to take it apart. I also found that the folder without the screws was not considered to be a liner lock. It was a lock back or slip joint. About the same time a maker friend of mine started into the liner lock thing and he just happened to want the same effect with no screws. He already was known a bit for his fine work but found these just weren't acceptable as such. If you look at liner locks you will see a marked difference in their shapes and sizes and "show" so very different than the slip joints and lock backs. On the other side these days it is how good it is and so do what you please and you might impress. Tonight I finished a folding fish knife for one of my grandson's companions (boy does she love to fish!) it doesn't have a thumb stud. It has a nail nick. I have done a couple of liner locks with hidden screws , so the no interference on the surface was there as you seem to want. You are doing some very nice work, just continue doing that as you see will work for you. It will be good. Frank

Thanks Frank!
Sounds like I should do a couple of easier folders before I start on the pinned linerlocks! I'm just attracted to the idea of reducing the number of 'elements' in the design. But perhaps going as far as doing away with screws is not necessary, I'll have to keep working on designs and see what I like.

 

[aarongough]

It can be done but I think the key issue would be the lack of adjustment possibilities. If I were to try this, I think I would use a bushing that is just a tad (probably around 5/10000 of an inch) thicker than the blade and washers combined. The use of a bushing will prevent the liners from pinching the blade, but of course it will also cause blade play unless the fit is absolutely spot on.

It won't be the easiest knife to make, but it could be done.

Brian

Using a bushing in that manner was exactly what I was thinking. Haven't made any folders at all yet so perhaps I will change my mind once I get started...

Several US cutlery companies made liner locks this way 40 years ago. I see no reason you couldn't do it- but I have never made a liner lock, and I never will.

I'm thinking of doing a variation on the liner lock, similar to how Des Horn does his knives. I had a chat with him here in Toronto while he was here for the CKG show and he's fine with me using a similar mechanism which is very kind.

Koji Hara makes pinned together liner locks.

Thinking about it I actually saw some of his work at the CKG show just recently, clearly I didn't put that together when I was looking at them!

Aaron, if you don't have it, you should search the web for a copy of Bob Terzuola - The Tactical Folding Knife (or you can usually find a print copy on Ebay in the $200-400 range). I found a .pdf copy and it is an amazing resource for liner locks. He discusses the pinning vs screwing assembly.

Bob

Bob,
Believe it or not my Dad bought me a copy of that book (along with the Ron Lake book) when I was a kid. They must be both back in Aus somewhere though, no idea if they're still even around...

Good suggestion! I will try to find copies.
-A

 

[elementfe]

The only reason I can see NOT to do it (other than customers thinking that it doesn't "look right") would be that liner locks are expected to have a much quicker action than slipjoints- any resistance to opening is seen as a flaw. What that means is that you'd be best off using a bushing as described, but you'd have to get it dialed in just right and not do that thing where you (meaning me, having done it) tap the rivet/pin JUST ONE MORE TIME FOR GOOD MEASURE
When I don't want the pivot pin showing (sometimes the steampunk or tactical look just isn't right ) I hide it under the bolster and use a couple discreet #80 screws to hold the bolster in place on the liner.

PS- using shims when setting the rivet might be an aid....

 

[Frank Niro]

Aaron, today the ability to "do" allows for originality and innovation and can produce singularity that may help to bring about demand. Frank

 

[aarongough]

Aaron, today the ability to "do" allows for originality and innovation and can produce singularity that may help to bring about demand. Frank

Yes I agree Frank, just hadn't really seen it done so wasn't sure if there was some reason I'd missed that made it technically infeasible/impossible.

It will be something I keep in mind going forward!