Linerlocks vs. all the others

Seems like practically every manufacturer is putting out linerlocks these days, and more and more framelocks are coming onto the market. Are they cheaper to manufacture, more reliable than a traditional lockback such as Buck, CS, etc., or are linerlocks just the current fad? It seems that the fitting must be very precise to allow for wear, which I've found to be negligible on my 'traditional' lockbacks.
I have only one linerlock, a CS ULTRAlock, which seems as solid as can be. But then, I've never had a problem with my CS Voyagers, which I can easily open and close one-handed.
 
Linerlock are relatively easy to manufacter using current machinery. Lockback are even easier.
The big benefit of linerlocks is the freedom of shape of the handle. A lockback takes away space.
I have two buck 110's. Both never failed me. But still, a linerlock is easier to disengage while still strong. People said that linerlocks are stronger then lockbacks..I seriously doubt that.
Then you have all the more advanced locks..
Framelocks..Axis...arc-lock... rolling lock..
They require higher manufactering standards becasue they go bad if they are even 1/10 mm off. They have some advantages...some disadvantages.... I currently prefer the framelock on my Benchmade pinnacle. I handled axis locks, it just didn't work for me. I feel that an axis can too easily be disengaged in trouble situations...just scrape besides something.



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The most important advantage liner locks have is that, justified or not, they have the market attention. Or rather, they had the market attention through the 1990s. There are newer (axis, arc, rolling, compression) and different (integral, bolster) locks garnering more attention these days.

Technically, liner locks have the advantage of giving a very smooth action and one-hand closing. More importantly, the liner lock is a lock format that is easy for a single maker with simple tools to make.

The disadvantage is that liner locks are exceedingly difficult to consistently make in a reliable fashion. While some makers are able to do better or worse at making reliable liner locks, taken as a class, liner locks are by far the most unreliable lock format I've ever run into. By far. Note I'm talking about reliability here, not strength -- liner locks are plenty strong enough. It would be unfair not to point out that there are definitely makers and production companies who do a much better job at making their liner locks consistently reliable.

While there are many people here who still buy liner locks, the number of people who won't buy liner locks anymore (or, like me, will only accept them on gents' knives, not working knives) seems to continue to grow.

Joe
 
Ed Gordon

Ed Gordon

Joined
Feb 19, 2000
Messages
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I have to agree with Joe. My liner lock days are about over. Way to much variation in QC in both factory and customs. Liner locks are a great concept and I do have some that work fine and have been reliable, I also have some that are total disappointments and I do not even use. I also think that titanim liners are less desirable than steel. Titanium tends to "stick" when unlocking and on some of my knives the liner has moved far right as the titanium wears/mashes etc. As of late, I am not interested in any folding knives with a blade over 3.5" either. If I need a blade over 3.5" it will be a fixed blade. Actually 90% of my folders are about 3" or under. Caviet Emptor...Ed.
 
If I seriously thought I would need a blade to protect my life, I'd carry only fixed-blade knives. But that's not really likely.

In reality, I think that an axis-lock is every bit as prone to accidental release as my Spyderco Military. It only takes a slip of the thumb to unlock an axis-lock.

For work, I carry an Outdoor Edge Magna, which is cheap ($40 replacement cost if I lose it) and is probably the least prone to accidental lock failure of any folder of any lock type that I've handled.

My current carry knives are the Military and the Magna, both liner-locks, and both favored due to 4" blades and other properties of these knives - combined with locks that are as good as any folder lock in my own judgement.
 
I think there are certainly more reliable locks out there than the linerlocks. Still, I rediscovered I still like a well-made liner lock in certain situations over other lock types.

For example, if I'm going out in very wet, rainy weather, I will most likely carry my BM AFCK with BT2 blade coating, or an Emerson sith the Black Ti coating. Besides the protective coating for the blades, these types of knives use Ti liners which are very corrosion-resistant, and no small parts to corrode or get as messy as some of the new locks or lockbacks. (Although I'm aware that Ti doesn't usually wear as long as SS liners, depending on how the lock face on the blade tang is angled, lock fit, etc., a titanium lock can last very long, IMO).

This is one instance where I might favor a linerlock for carry.
Jim
 
A couple people in this thread have posted concerns about accidently disengaging the Axis Lock with their thumbs.

Has anyone ever actually experienced a problem with this?

I have not been able to manipulate my 705 in a realistic manner which disengaged the Axis when I would not want it to disengage.

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AKTI Member No. A000370
 
A broken knife is a broken knife. If you are worried about the lock failing, get your knives Fixed!

Parannoying
 
Para,

I have come to truly appreciate the convenience and utility of a small Fixed Blade with a Good Multi-Carry Synthetic Sheath. In fact a Phillip and Barry Jones Neck Knife is one of my favorite EDCs.

However, We should not sell the many high quality folders available today short. I would go so far as to say that this is the most exciting period of history for Folding Knives seen to date.

There are more high quality choices in terms of Materials, Design, Locking Mechanisms, etc than ever before.

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AKTI Member No. A000370
 
I have two BM Axis knives--one of which is always with me--and the usual lockbacks and linerlocks.

I've never, ever come close to accidentally unlocking an Axis lock. I think they're so much better than the competition that I find it difficult to buy others. But, of course, I do.

One thing I'd disagree with Bart about: I find that linerlocks are the ones that need tremendous precision to get right. The way Axis locks are built, there's plenty of room for wear (still haven't seen any), error, and dirt. Linerlocks, however, try to strike a delicate balance of angles and pressure--all right under your index finger.

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Man, I hate smileys.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SDouglas:
A couple people in this thread have posted concerns about accidently disengaging the Axis Lock with their thumbs.

Has anyone ever actually experienced a problem with this?</font>
Click to expand...

This is a theoretical concern that has not been shown to be a real, practical concern. It seems to me as if sometimes people are concerned about something that doesn't seem to ever occur to an axis lock in either real life or testing, and instead favor a lock that has problems that show up again and again and again in both real life and testing.

Of course, I don't think that's the final word. In the very early days of the axis lock, there was a report of a guy accidently unlocking his axis, but when I tried to follow up with him, I couldn't contact him, so I remain sceptical. I personally have tried working my axis locks hard, including different grips, and even actively trying to hit the axis lock button with all reasonable grips I could. I've also done defensive-type training. However, and this is a big "however", I do not do grip manipulations in defensive training. I lock the knife in one grip or other and keep it there. I don't know whether or not the grip manipulation crowd -- Bram and company, for example -- have ever tried out an axis lock this way. They claim to have unlocked rolling locks this way, which is shocking to me. Of course, since I don't do grip manipulations, the results don't apply to me directly, but it would be interesting to see what the grip manipulation crowd thinks.

Joe
 
Maybe I'm just a lucky guy but I have never had any knife lock fail me.
I don't own an axis lock (yet) but I like all different kinds of locks (liner-lock, lockback, Neely-lock, frame-lock. ect), I especially like clever lock designs that have a certain "cool" factor.
But as far as strength goes: I think the knife industry hypes new locks just to increase sales (an axis lock may be stronger than a lockback, but how much stronger? And does it make a difference in everyday practical use?).
Remember that the knife is a folder and it does have its limits. Any idiot can break a knife lock if he is determined enough.

One last thing: I think if you want the strongest folding knife lock available you should get a balisong. I don't see how anyone could accidently disengage that lock design!
Good luck and happy hunting.

 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by allenC:
One last thing: I think if you want the strongest folding knife lock available you should get a balisong. I don't see how anyone could accidently disengage that lock design!
Good luck and happy hunting.


</font>
Click to expand...
I agree, I carried a liner lock for a while but love my balisong and have switched over
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balisongs rule (you do cut yourself frequently though
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