Lions, wolves and bears..Oh MY!!

Codger_64

Moderator
Joined
Oct 8, 2004
Messages
62,324
We have a lot of discussions here on large predators As you know, they range from "What small slip joint would be best to kill and skin a grizz" to "we don't have those around here". A lot of discussion centers around what to do if... , and what happened to these people...

Well, most of us have a fair idea of what large predators (and ungulates which can be aggressive) inhabit the areas we like to roam. We develop a "comfort zone" of sorts regarding our knowledge of critters we will likely encounter and how to avoid them or to deal with them when they do cross our paths.

Most of these animals are somewhat territorial and their ranges are fairly well known. But in their territorial habits, some have quite wide ranges, and some drive off their young at a certain age. Those offspring can travel quite a distance seeking their own territory. And complicating the natural tendency to spread out as resources reach carrying capacity, we have wildlife resources department projects to reestablish populations of predators and ungulates where they have been extirpated, often for a century or more.

Naturally, when agencies do make reintroductions, they usually try to keep it quiet so as to protect the few animals released. Or they add protected status to prevent people from harvesting them. Most game laws work this way, even without a special listing. Some years ago, I had a discussion with a wildlife officer about a mountain lion sighting. "There are no mountain lions (cougar, puma, painter, panther) in this state." "So if I come across one, I can kill it since it does not exist?" "No. The only animals that can be killed are those for which there are open, declared seasons." Most often sightings on non-indigenous animals are passed off as mistaken identity or released/escaped pets.

Quite a few years back I was shocked when a black bear went on a rampage through my camp on the Buffalo River in Arkansas. Arkansas was known in it's early years as "The Bear State". Hides and bear oil were a big source of revenue for market hunters. But they were extirpated (wiped out) by 1927. I was unaware that AG&F had recently reintroduced them from stocks obtained in Minnesota and Canada. Naturally, I was quite unprepared for "bear country" protocol. My worst problems there to date were raccoons and beavers (who were mostly nocturnal and would chew or drag off boots, paddles, etc.).

Coyotes were another predator I was not used to dealing with. They began their own reintroduction spreading throughout Arkansas from the South West and West. This was caused chiefly by the removal of the native red wolf populations.

At about the same time bears were being stocked, elk were reintroduced to the watershed (extirpated c. 1847). That program has been quite successful and limited permit hunts are now being held to keep the herds in check. There are some circumstances where elk can be dangerous to people caught unaware of their presence, or foolish enough to approach them as if they were petting zoo animals. I would be surprised if red wolves, reduced by the 1940's and nearly extirpated by the early 1970's, did not someday make a reappearance. Captive breeding programs have already resulted in reintroduction in several states.

The incident that prompted this post is the recent admission by AG&FC (Arkansas Game & Fish Commission) that mountain lions are indeed once again present in Arkansas. This admission comes on the heels of many years of denial that they were there. People who claimed to have seen them were dismissed. One famous (infamous?) incident involved a woman who was apparently killed by one, and yet the denials persisted. This time, one was caught clearly on a trail camera by a credible witness.

343iws8.jpg


Now, don't misunderstand. I am not saying that all of these lions, bears, yotes, wolves, elk etc. are out to get me (you), but traveling in their habitat does take some forethought to reduce the chances of unpleasant run-ins. And just because you do not think they are there (or your game and wildlife officers say they are not) does not mean that they aren't.

I am now looking into tactics for defense from the rogue red eyed walrus when I canoe in Arkansas!:p
 
Last edited:
I do believe the heirs of the woman that was killed by a mountain lion have an excellent chance of winning a lawsuit. At least I hope they sue the (expletive deleted). I'm in Florida,I have no idea what will be setting up residence in this state next. We have bull sharks that will swim in fresh or salt water. The burmese pythons,anacondas,one case of a green mamba, iguanas everywhere. Have heard one report of someone finding cast off cobra snakeskin in the wild. Probably still have monkeys running loose from the Johnny Weismuller films. It's a zoo out there!
 
I have been thinking on this same subject lately. Someone stated that the scat I found on the last hike I was on looked like that of a black bear. Though I know they are northeast of here I haven't seen one here since I was a young kid (about 40 years ago). I know the T.W.M.A. was reintroducing them here for a while but I haven't heard anything else about that. Now I want to go back to that area tomorrow to look for more signs.
 
I was discussing a very similar topic with my grandmother a couple of weeks back. Where she lives there have been and increased number of cow kills, and wolves are the chief suspect. It is believed that a pack moved from another area a couple years ago, but for whatever reason beef stayed off the menu as there are large deer and elk populations as well. a year ago, in response to local rancher's concerns about the (at the time) suspected wolves, a trapper came and trapped three wolves. We suspect that he took the Alpha, and now the new Alpha is taking cows. There has been no known wolf activity in the area for as far as anyone knows. Our local coyotes are far too small to take down a full grown cow, but have taken calves in the past, rarely.
As a side note raccoons were eliminated from the area in the late 70's and about 10 years ago returned in force and have become a real nuisance, with numerous adult animals being trapped in a very short period of time.
 
That's a good summary. Things are so interesting here in Idaho because of the drastically changing reintroduced wolf population. The Forest Service is having a heck of a time trying to keep track of the deer, elk and even moose populations that are being affected, and there are reports of much more aggressive behavior from the bears and the lions whose territories and food sources are being encroached on by the sheer volume of wolves.
 
Here in NC there have been sightings and supposedly prints of panthers but again the wildlife folks say no way. they are practically extinct in this area and for the east coast at that.. parts of me believe that they are still around. perhaps very few but there are some pretty remote places in the mtns of NC, SC, Ga, Tenn, Va, WV and etc..
 
I have been thinking on this same subject lately. Someone stated that the scat I found on the last hike I was on looked like that of a black bear. Though I know they are northeast of here I haven't seen one here since I was a young kid (about 40 years ago). I know the T.W.M.A. was reintroducing them here for a while but I haven't heard anything else about that. Now I want to go back to that area tomorrow to look for more signs.

Every summer hundreds of people are injured immediately after uttering the words "hold my bear", so please...hold your own bear.
 
parts of me believe that they are still around. perhaps very few but there are some pretty remote places in the mtns of NC, SC, Ga, Tenn, Va, WV and etc..

I would believe it. They are a wide-ranging species that require a large territory. Never very numerous, always stealthy. They could have developed a stable and healthy population without many people being aware of them at all.
 
:) I worry more about disease from mosquitos, ticks and being trampled by a Black Angus bull crossing a field... now those I HAVE seen happen(well I have seen the bulls TRY). Always good to be aware of your surrounding but a little danger is why they call it getting "Out to the Wilds". The predators are part of that/this world.

My grandfather grew up on Mt Rogers before it was a Park and saw & tracked Cougars there. LONG before Va Wildlife Commission was willing to admit there were any around.

But we do still have an Elk season on the license.
2Door
 
I would believe it. They are a wide-ranging species that require a large territory. Never very numerous, always stealthy. They could have developed a stable and healthy population without many people being aware of them at all.

very true...
 
we are seeing a steady increase in texas of the mt. lion. some years back i wondered why they would be east of austin as well; it's simple the feral hog population has gone crazy & coyotes pose no problem since the little ones hang around mom until they pass 60 lbs.hogs are mostly nocturnal & the cougar is the only predator able to pull them down. hogs are much easier prey than deer since lions can climb trees & ambush them easily.it's only a matter of time before a human--cougar confrontation. most biologists say cats have no home just a large territory they traverse , something like 70 miles.
dennis
 
this same situation just occured here in indiana and now the DNR has finally come out and said yes there is some mnt loins running around down south and possibly much further north. its crazy that they deny it for no reason. the people here had multiple game cam pics. either way they are all over and people should be careful
 
this same situation just occurred here in Indiana and now the DNR has finally come out and said yes there is some mnt loins running around down south and possibly much further north. its crazy that they deny it for no reason. the people here had multiple game cam pics. either way they are all over and people should be careful

There are several very good reasons why they deny the presence of certain large predators. One reason is a CYA. Another is that most wildlife resource agencies are strapped for funds. Some of them rely almost exclusively on license fees to support a very big agency with high overhead. License purchases are generally low nationwide (or were the last I heard). Almost all get a cut of the Federal tax on hunting and fishing equipment, but in the big scheme of things, that is usually just a drop in the bucket. A few agencies get revenue from State general revenue funds, but that is a mixed blessing. It puts their game and fish management programs under the thumb of State legislatures, often at odds with recommendations from knowledgeable biologists. Thus admitting the presence of another major species which needs monitoring and management/protection can represent a substantial increase in demands on an already strained budget.

If I am wrong in this, I hope someone will correct me. Any wildlife officers or biologists on here?
 
I've seen a cougar/panther/mountain lion/puma/big cat with long fuzzy tail around here before, and found tracks another time, but only one guy believes me. He's seen one also. Probably the same one, given how large a territory a single cat can have. The most frequent argument I hear against the possibility of their presence is that they can't be here cause no hunter has brought one in yet. My return argument is that most hunters around here couldn't find a brothel in Amsterdam. Needless to say, this upsets the hunters in question.
 
Even though lions were never ever close to being endangered, somebody decided they needed to be a protected species in Calif. That caused a huge jump in the population, and there have been way more lion incidents in the years that followed.

The hills around my house (Reche/San Timoteo Canyons) contained a fair number of deer when I was a kid. Over the years, development (presumably) has driven them out. I have not seen any in many years where I regularly hike, but was surprised to see a fair number of tracks the other day. Deer are the favored prey of lions....so I am keeping an eye out for them now!
 
Last edited:
Allot of similar things are going on in my own home state... THere have been numerous reports of mt Lion sightings here, I once saw a fawn carcass about 0 feet up a tree not 60 miles from the heart of down town manhattan (that still has me guessing)..There are also claims of possible encounters with eastern Gray wolves.. Black bears and coyotes where always present but now dwell in record numbers.. in suburban neighborhoods... I am fine sharing the space.. but choose to arm myself with knowledge and appropriate tools to minimize the liklihood of ending up on the buffet..
I strongly believe that nature is not out to get us.... however by not taking proper preparations some folks seem like they are out to get themselves.. and nothing can save you from that...
 
... I am fine sharing the space.. but choose to arm myself with knowledge and appropriate tools to minimize the liklihood of ending up on the buffet..
I strongly believe that nature is not out to get us.... however by not taking proper preparations some folks seem like they are out to get themselves.. and nothing can save you from that...

This is exactly my point. Additionally, many of us like to take our pets, wives and small children out to experience the wonders of nature. That is a good thing in my opinion. But just keep in mind that often it is the squeals and constant motion of children which attract predators.

As the sergeant on Hill Street Blues always said at the end of the briefing... Hey! Let's be safe out there! :p
 
Allot of similar things are going on in my own home state... THere have been numerous reports of mt Lion sightings here, I once saw a fawn carcass about 0 feet up a tree not 60 miles from the heart of down town manhattan (that still has me guessing)..There are also claims of possible encounters with eastern Gray wolves.. Black bears and coyotes where always present but now dwell in record numbers.. in suburban neighborhoods... I am fine sharing the space.. but choose to arm myself with knowledge and appropriate tools to minimize the liklihood of ending up on the buffet..
I strongly believe that nature is not out to get us.... however by not taking proper preparations some folks seem like they are out to get themselves.. and nothing can save you from that...
What would you call proper preparations? I will be camping in a very rural area of NH at the beginning of October and there are Black Bear, Moose, and who knows what else there. I wasn't planning on buying bear spray since there are no Brown Bear in NH that I know of, and I do not carry firearms. Beyond knowing how to handle yourself around each animal (calmly back away with moose, holler at/stare down a mt. lion, etc.), what else would be prudent? Bear canister?
 
Back
Top