lionSTEEL Limited Edition BestMan - heads up

Basically whether BF decides a knife is traditional or not comes down to who posts it - I will leave it there
 
Railsplitter said:
Has anybody gotten one of these yet?
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CyberRacer said:
Honest question, how do you define a "traditional" knife? The Lionsteels, especially models like the Best Man and CK Sheepsfoot Jack seemed to me to be traditional designs with modern materials. If there is a thread you can point me to I'd appreciate it.
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Hello,
They're traditional designs, yes.... but after owning a couple of the CK exclusives from Italy (which are excellent knives, by the way), I've come to the conclusion they are not traditional knives. Why? One reason most of all: it's the way they're assembled.

A traditional knife is fashioned with pins and then the whole thing is ground and buffed smooth. These new ones are screwed together like modern folders are made. It's a whole different process regardless of the materials involved. It's a modern process rather than a traditional one.
 
Pinemoon said:
Hello,
They're traditional designs, yes.... but after owning a couple of the CK exclusives from Italy (which are excellent knives, by the way), I've come to the conclusion they are not traditional knives. Why? One reason most of all: it's the way they're assembled.

A traditional knife is fashioned with pins and then the whole thing is ground and buffed smooth. These new ones are screwed together like modern folders are made. It's a whole different process regardless of the materials involved. It's a modern process rather than a traditional one.
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Have you dis-assembled one? The frames are pinned; the slabs / bolsters are screwed on. There have been many processes of attaching slabs over the last century - even glue. Even shell knives are considered traditional.

But, I think the term "modern" is being used as a omnibus here. Just because it shows to have been made in the past couple decades internally does not really do justice to "modern". Maybe "technology traditional" can be our term for a traditional character with more recent material components. But one class that is used for a spyderco and a slipjoint is probably spread a bit thin.
 
knifeswapper said:
Have you dis-assembled one? The frames are pinned; the slabs / bolsters are screwed on. There have been many processes of attaching slabs over the last century - even glue. Even shell knives are considered traditional.

But, I think the term "modern" is being used as a omnibus here. Just because it shows to have been made in the past couple decades internally does not really do justice to "modern". Maybe "technology traditional" can be our term for a traditional character with more recent material components. But one class that is used for a spyderco and a slipjoint is probably spread a bit thin.
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You don't have to defend your knives, Mike.
They're great, very unique. I'm carrying a Viper Swayback right now and love the stuffing out of it.
But I recognize the departure from a traditional knife.

I was trying to explain to another member why these get flack here for being non-traditional.
The assembly process is different, it's modernized.

That said, please keep designing them.

As I've mentioned before, these knives really need their own category/sub-forum here as they're really a revolution in the slipjoint world. They're "Modern Traditionals"
We have a thread here in the Traditional section called this, but they deserve more.
 
Pinemoon said:
You don't have to defend your knives, Mike.
They're great, very unique.
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I gave up defending anything with my name on it a long time ago. I am just having a conversation and actually leaning the other way now and trying to defend modern knives from having to include slipjoints. We have called the framelock / linerlock ball bearing based knives "modern" in our shop so long - that I don't want to have to change once again just because a knife came along made with newer components ;) It is even built into our "Selection Tool"....

I guess my main concern is that there is the floating word "traditional" or "modern" sitting out there that each person gets to determine for themselves. BladeForums has criteria, but they are also not the authority per se. But if we actually produced rules by most peoples opinions, we would have 100 year old knives that don't qualify. We could also have a brand new knife made that carries the hallmarks; but looks nothing like anything anyone has ever seen before. But, if buffing the heads off some torx screws changes the entire definition of the knife - it probably needs re-visited anyway :D
 
knifeswapper said:
I am just having a conversation

I don't want to have to change once again just because a knife came along made with newer components

But, if buffing the heads off some torx screws changes the entire definition of the knife - it probably needs re-visited anyway :D
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This topic appears kind of futile to hash out, but for the sake of conversation...
It's more than newer components, it's more than buffing the heads off of screws
It's the manufacturing process, which doesn't resemble a traditional one.

It's like comparing a 1938 Chevy Suburban with a 2020 Suburban. It's not just the materials, that've changed, it's the process of assembly. A trained eye can discern this stuff. The materials aren't part of this argument. It's the process.

Lastly, the pivot on the newer slippies...
They are not traditional.
It's not the materials on the pivots, it's the process of assembly.

I think what we're running into time and again here is not whether anything is superior or inferior, but we're trying to discuss and showcase innovative slipjoint knives under the traditional umbrella of this forum.
And some take offense.

I don't, but it seems some folks want a Suburban built just like it was back in the day, that is, if we're talking traditional Suburbans (pre-airbag, etc). So to avoid this silliness, I suggest we have a proper platform where ridicule can't rear it's head. I mean, you must be getting tired of the old guard poo-pooing these fine knives just because this is Traditional territory.
I know I am.
 
I don’t really care if it’s a traditional or not, if it speaks to me. And these do... unfortunately I’m broke atm :)
 
Pinemoon said:
It's like comparing a 1938 Chevy Suburban with a 2020 Suburban. It's not just the materials, that've changed, it's the process of assembly. A trained eye can discern this stuff. The materials aren't part of this argument. It's the process.
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So, is the 1938 not a suburban or is the 2020 not a suburban? ;)
What if the 2020 comes in electric - can they no longer be recognized as or called a suburban?

GEC has now purchased CNC equipment; they might need to be warned they cannot produce traditional knives with it ;)

I agree that the conversation might need to take place; my problem is that by 2019 in the U.S. if you allow some definition you don't agree with to take root - the next thing you have is people using a bike rack as a public restroom. I simply don't agree that they can't be "traditional" if made in this decade with this decade's equipment. But I completely respect your opinion otherwise. I personally don't call some of the other slipjoints "traditional" because they have changed the frame to something I don't recognize from my Case / Remington / Winchester / etc. catalogs; but by most given definitions I would concede I am incorrect.
 
Richard Coyle said:
I don’t really care if it’s a traditional or not, if it speaks to me. And these do... unfortunately I’m broke atm :)
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That's the way I see it too. I'm happy to abide by the rules of this sub forum but for me personally, that's where the "traditional" moniker ends.
 
PirateSeulb said:
Looking at these makes me feel like these knives never should have had bolsters or a 2nd blade.
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I'm on the opposite side of the fence. With the bolstered models coming out first, that's what I bought and I've become rather attached to them. I do like the single sheepsfoot blade on these though.
 
knifeswapper knifeswapper
There's a simple answer here.
The 2020 Suburban, whether gas or electric, is not a traditional Suburban.
Kinda like the Jeep comparison above.
I'm puzzled why this point alludes you.

I've said about all I can say on this topic.
Again, please keep creating modern, innovative slipjoints.
They're great pieces and very unique. I rest my case.
 
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