List the worse axes, hatchets or tomahawk on the market today. Ones to avoid

Born to Kill said:
Still pretty new here...

But WTF at not being allowed to have a negative opinion about a product and voicing it?

I know it's a website and not the good ole U.S. of A. but freedom of speech is a good thing.

Feedback, especially negative...on products...is a good thing.
It lets others know what to avoid.

Chill.
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My opinion:

I think there are actually quite a few people on this forum that make their living or part of their living in related fields (or even unrelated fields). I think they can emphasize with the damage that a little bit of unbridled negativity can cause. Also, opinions are not always well informed. I think that respectfulness is appreciated here...also "a good thing." There is a fair amount of negative feedback here. The spirit in which it is communicated is important. There are two sides to every story. The problem with this thread is that it started with a less than ideal spirit that asked for only one side of the story.
 
Indeed--the number of us that benefit monetarily from the cutlery industry and this forum are reasonably high, and as a result creates a certain amount of natural bias. However I think that a lot of people also simply don't like to see "bashing", or negative opinion that they feel is either undeserved or is without fact to back it up. I know that due to my great familiarity with Condor products, for instance, that I often am a little bothered when someone fires off a negative comment about either a particular model or the entire product line just because they got a lemon. I'm willing to admit that they have a problem (that they're working on) with quality control--that's why I inspect all of them--but I wouldn't sell them if I didn't feel they were a solid product. As a result I tend to step in to defend them based on my experience with the line as a result of my personal and professional experience with them.

Many people who have ties to the industry have an even harder time about admitting fault with a product, and they naturally clash with those who purportedly "tell it like it is." A balance is needed, however, to recognize the deficiencies of a product and to take the time to address the problem with the manufacturer before writing off a model or maker. Realize there's a problem, tell the manufacturer there's a problem, see how they respond to it, and THEN tell the community how it went. This is more useful both to the manufacturer AND the community.

Back on topic, the worst axes I've seen in a while are the TrueTemper axes with the red fiberglass handles you can get at Lowes--they have a weird depression in the cheek near the eye that's surrounded by a raised ring. This means that if you try splitting with it the blade will sink in up to that point and then hit the lip of the ring. Also the whole head is roughly textured. Who thought that was a good idea??? :confused:
 
regarding Best Damn Axe co. and their past secrecy, it is common for a small company to be secretive about their sources and etc. too easy for a copy cat to do exactly what you do. If the copy cat has deeper pockets they can out spend you on start-up and take the market from you.

Another reason to be secretive is because you just don't want to read a bunch of bullcrap that couch commandos post about your product. the less info you give, the less they have to work with.

Now having said all of that. at some point the secrecy works against you and then open up, as they just did. ( and like the Obama birth certificate, it was not longer working to his political advantage)

I'm not vouching for these guys, never seen their product and couldn't give a crap less about a paint job for my axe. But having many years in the business world wanted to mention it.

I didn't read this thread until today, because I didn't want to be a part of ranking the worst, especially since I don't buy off the bottom end. Glad to see the thread didn't go too badly
 
cckw said:
regarding Best Damn Axe co. and their past secrecy, it is common for a small company to be secretive about their sources and etc. too easy for a copy cat to do exactly what you do. If the copy cat has deeper pockets they can out spend you on start-up and take the market from you.
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I'm NOT aiming at Best Made here but it is a lot more common to have company being secretive because of their poor practices like shoddy product origin or processes description.

On the other hand the fact that Best Made is charging $100 to (mostly) paint an handle black isn't secret at all and is what most people in that thread are not happy with. It's one thing to look at products with an open mind. It's another to accept to be shoved marketing down your throat.
As one of the initial posters said it is not about product quality, more about how it is sold. The fact some people are happy with it doesn't force anyone else to jump into bandwagon.
 
I think Best Made Co. has made some changes for the better. Initially they offered no substantial technical information, and wouldn't respond to e-mail questions about technical aspects of the product. One of the company founders went so far as to say this.

"We just don’t believe that our product requires a heavy technical explanation for being as good as it is. It is far more than Steel and Hickory. Our customer base is generally not interested in grind angles on the bits or in hardness testing. They are interested in becoming part of a company that tells a story about a product, gains their trust by actually acknowledging them, offering a unique experience through the purchase and in the end delivers an outstanding quality axe. We are not interested in being technical here — we are interested in providing motivation to think about good citizenship. We are interested in sharing our “Inspiration” and watching how it builds a “Tribe” of people — people with a common thread.… and guess what… that thread is not the axe."

Many people including myself found this off putting. I was a potential customer looking for a quality axe, not looking to pay entry fee to a "Tribe of good citizenship". The fact that Nick has chimed in here willing to answer questions tells me that Best Made has modified their approach. More openness about the product and a cheaper unfinished version should win over some of the established "axe community". I don't think this will cost them any sales among the CEO and trustafarian market either.
 
trailmaker said:
I think Best Made Co. has made some changes for the better. Initially they offered no substantial technical information, and wouldn't respond to e-mail questions about technical aspects of the product. One of the company founders went so far as to say this.

"We just don’t believe that our product requires a heavy technical explanation for being as good as it is. It is far more than Steel and Hickory. Our customer base is generally not interested in grind angles on the bits or in hardness testing. They are interested in becoming part of a company that tells a story about a product, gains their trust by actually acknowledging them, offering a unique experience through the purchase and in the end delivers an outstanding quality axe. We are not interested in being technical here — we are interested in providing motivation to think about good citizenship. We are interested in sharing our “Inspiration” and watching how it builds a “Tribe” of people — people with a common thread.… and guess what… that thread is not the axe."

Many people including myself found this off putting. I was a potential customer looking for a quality axe, not looking to pay entry fee to a "Tribe of good citizenship". The fact that Nick has chimed in here willing to answer questions tells me that Best Made has modified their approach. More openness about the product and a cheaper unfinished version should win over some of the established "axe community". I don't think this will cost them any sales among the CEO and trustafarian market either.
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Had to google "trustafarian!" :) That quote is strange...
 
Born to Kill said:
Still pretty new here...

But WTF at not being allowed to have a negative opinion about a product and voicing it?

I know it's a website and not the good ole U.S. of A. but freedom of speech is a good thing.

Feedback, especially negative...on products...is a good thing.
It lets others know what to avoid.

Chill.
Click to expand...

There is a forum here on BF that is specifically intended for negative reviews, I suggest it be used rather than this forum.

Robin
 
nickzdon said:
My name is Nick Zdon and I work with Best Made Co. Here is some more information:

For various reasons, Snow and Neally are not providing axes for us anymore. All of our axes are made for us by Council Tool. In fact we were part of the prototyping process on the new Velvicut line. I remember getting my hands on some of the first helve prototypes and how good they felt with their thin cross-section (thinner than just about any other helve you'll find on the US market). In fact this is one of the first protoypes. It lives at a cabin in Barryville, New York.

The Best Made Co. unfinished model actually sells for a tiny bit less than what you can get it for from Council. So if you don't want a pink axe, you don't have to buy one. The unpainted model is finished with linseed oil and it does come sharpened, although most members of this forum would probably tweak it a bit when they got it. The profile is the thinnest you'll probably find on the US market. It's most similar to the vintage heads I've got.

We published a lengthy axe restoration series on our blog. We've also held two Axe Restoration workshops, one in New York City and one in Minneapolis, with requests to do more from across the country, although it's not really feasible to do yet. Most of the information wouldn't be new to the members of this forum, but many of our customers and fans appreciate it. In fact I correspond regularly with customers on their own restoration projects, most all of them on axes other than Best Made axes.

We've been guests at both the Gransfors and Wetterlings factories in Sweden. They've been very nice and supportive of the company and what we've been doing.

It's true that we have extensively broadened our product offering beyond axes, but the axe will always be at the heart of what we do. So as far as describing Best Made Co. as a "blight on the axe community," I think we've done plenty to offer a tool of the highest quality, preserve and share the history of the axe, and introduce a whole new group of people to the beauty, lore, and resourcefulness that is the axe and axemanship.

We are in no way affiliated with Basecamp X.

I agree with Pipeman and feel that this type of posting should be closed. I debated for a couple days whether I should even respond, this type of posting gets out of hand quickly. If anyone has any questions feel free to send me a message.

For the record, I own 12 axes, 3 of them Best Made axes, I've got 6 heads in various stages of restoration, and my favorite swinger is a 3.5 lb dayton from Manhattan Axe Co., Glassport, PA, on a 32" curved helve from LaPierre Sawyer (one of my favorite handle manufacturers, if you can find them anywhere. I'll post pictures soon). My only regret is not being more involved in this forum earlier. I enjoy seeing what folks are working on, and I know I've picked up plenty of tips myself. So, to all forum members: Thank you.

Best,
Nick Zdon
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Hi there Nick, welcome to the forum and thank you for giving your input. Because the folks here are interested it would be great if you can give us updates on the technical specs of your axes.

Thanks again.

Best regards

Robin
 
Ravaillac: We've been meaning to get down to North Carolina for a photo shoot, but the summer's gotten away from us. I'll be sure to post some photos here when we eventually get down there.

trailmaker: That individual is no longer with the company. Call me up, I'll talk axes all day. We're focused on 'talking the talk, and walking the walk.'

Being a representative for a company that sells axes, I'll say that I'd much rather a potential reviewer contact the company directly about a tool's poor quality first before posting a negative review. On the whole, I'd say that Blade Forum reviews tend to be really quite honest and well informed. It's the 'bashing' reviews that get out of hand that frustrate me.

I myself, being affiliated with Best Made Co. feel that an ethical obligation prevents me from reviewing product on a public forum (but if you catch up to me at the bar ...)

//z
 
So, this Best Made Axe Co, takes axes from Council, redoes/tinkers/modifies/etc them, and then re-sells them as their own? Do I have that right or am I missing the big picture?
 
Operator1975 said:
So, this Best Made Axe Co, takes axes from Council, redoes/tinkers/modifies/etc them, and then re-sells them as their own? Do I have that right or am I missing the big picture?
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He seems pretty upfront that they are Council axes. I don't really see the problem with improving (as a matter of perspective) a product and then selling it.
 
scouter27 said:
He seems pretty upfront that they are Council axes. I don't really see the problem with improving (as a matter of perspective) a product and then selling it.
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Is that your way of not admitting you got one of thier polka-dot axes?
 
I was just trying to make sure I understood what appeared to be the business operation, thats all.

I am wondering, playing the pot stirrer, how is this different than the Mann Edge Tool Co making the Keen Kutter axes that had the EC Simmons name on them, and are now so sought after, even though EC Simmons didnt physically make them, they just sold the name? Interesting question I think.
 
I'm not saying I agree with the practice, or even actually understand why they DON'T announce the manufacturer of the heads, in this case. Council Tool is a respected axe maker, and their Velvicut line especially so.

They buy the axes to pretty them up for people to buy. I personally don't see a problem with it. The capitalist system will correct them if they are doing something wrong.
 
To clarify for Operator1975, Best Made axes are made specifically for us by Council Tool. It's a partnership. We've consulted on the Velvicut line and other products. It's not like we buy their axes and then resell them with Council not knowing about it. Best Made does the finish work on the helves in our workshop in New York City. And you're right to point out that there's a long history of many axe manufacturers making 'contract axes' to be sold under different names.

CCKW is also correct to point out that how we've decided to talk about our product sourcing is part of a complex business decision (resulting from lengthy internal discussion) and it will most likely change as Best Made Co. changes and grows.
 
nickzdon said:
To clarify for Operator1975, Best Made axes are made specifically for us by Council Tool. It's a partnership. We've consulted on the Velvicut line and other products. It's not like we buy their axes and then resell them with Council not knowing about it. Best Made does the finish work on the helves in our workshop in New York City. And you're right to point out that there's a long history of many axe manufacturers making 'contract axes' to be sold under different names.

CCKW is also correct to point out that how we've decided to talk about our product sourcing is part of a complex business decision (resulting from lengthy internal discussion) and it will most likely change as Best Made Co. changes and grows.
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Thanks for the clarification. I did have it wrong, what I thought was going on. Sounds interesting. Thanks for the info.
 
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