- Joined
- Nov 11, 1999
- Messages
- 398
=====
Last edited:
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Live Blade Training?
- Thread starter Donna Barnas
- Start date
Donna,
While I am normally Mr. Safety/Worrywart on these forums, I do feel if you are going to take your training all the way, there comes a point where you have to try it. If you have done the drill perfectly with wooden dowels, rubber knives and aluminum trainers and could do the disarm in your sleep, then why does your pulse double and sweat start running down your back when your training partner picks up a live blade?
The majority of my live blade work has been at half speed or slower. A lot of the disarm work was veerryyy slow, to see where actual edges and points would go, when doing the disarm. This is the type of training that has contributed to my 'smash their head until they drop the knife' theory of disarming, as opposed to strips and locks.
I have had some exciting live blade moments. Back in the 80's when I was in the apprentice instructor program with Guro Ted Lucaylucay, 4 of us were having our private lesson. The normally happy and even tempered Guro Ted was having a bad day....and for whatever reason all 4 of us were not putting out much effort. We were working a passing drill for empty hands against edged weapons. Guro Ted was using an aluminum barong and we were supossed to pass, check and deflect his continuous feeds. I have to admit I was flaking off and playing patty cake with the aluminum blade. Guro Ted got an expresion I had never seen before and said, "You need something to help you focus." He then walked over to the wall display behind his desk, got down a razor sharp kris, walked back and proceeded to have me do the drill against a live blade. It was 15 years ago and I can still remember almost every move we made, every drop of sweat that fell off of me and being so hyped after surviving the drill that I didn't get to sleep until 3 in the morning. My not getting cut is probably more of a tribute to Guro Ted's skill with a blade than my empty hand skills, but it was a very important point in my training to me.
Another fun one was a student of mine who was going to Central America. He was very concerned about machete wielding BG's so we practiced empty hands against long blade trainers. He got pretty good at it but expressed doubts about facing a real blade, so I brought a sharp machete to class. We worked with it at half speed and he survived but he still expressed doubts. We picked up the pace until he felt that it was too fast to be safe. He still expressed doubts and I must admit I let my ego (my wife says my secret hero identity is EgoMan!) get the better of me and I had him come at me at speed with whatever attack he wanted. I passed and controlled his first 2 swings and manged to disarm his thrust. This was another adrenaline rush and I was buzzing when he lost the blade. I was pointing out that he could do the same disarm and survive and he was pointing to the gash down my left foream, that I didn't even feel.
Donna, no matter how long you train or how realistic you try to make it, with padded attackers, aluminum trainers or even dulled out real knives, it's just never the same and as Smoke said it's a rush.
Safety disclaimer. Don't nobody try this, no how, nowhere, cause you'll get hurt and I don't want you crying to me!
While I am normally Mr. Safety/Worrywart on these forums, I do feel if you are going to take your training all the way, there comes a point where you have to try it. If you have done the drill perfectly with wooden dowels, rubber knives and aluminum trainers and could do the disarm in your sleep, then why does your pulse double and sweat start running down your back when your training partner picks up a live blade?
The majority of my live blade work has been at half speed or slower. A lot of the disarm work was veerryyy slow, to see where actual edges and points would go, when doing the disarm. This is the type of training that has contributed to my 'smash their head until they drop the knife' theory of disarming, as opposed to strips and locks.
I have had some exciting live blade moments. Back in the 80's when I was in the apprentice instructor program with Guro Ted Lucaylucay, 4 of us were having our private lesson. The normally happy and even tempered Guro Ted was having a bad day....and for whatever reason all 4 of us were not putting out much effort. We were working a passing drill for empty hands against edged weapons. Guro Ted was using an aluminum barong and we were supossed to pass, check and deflect his continuous feeds. I have to admit I was flaking off and playing patty cake with the aluminum blade. Guro Ted got an expresion I had never seen before and said, "You need something to help you focus." He then walked over to the wall display behind his desk, got down a razor sharp kris, walked back and proceeded to have me do the drill against a live blade. It was 15 years ago and I can still remember almost every move we made, every drop of sweat that fell off of me and being so hyped after surviving the drill that I didn't get to sleep until 3 in the morning. My not getting cut is probably more of a tribute to Guro Ted's skill with a blade than my empty hand skills, but it was a very important point in my training to me.
Another fun one was a student of mine who was going to Central America. He was very concerned about machete wielding BG's so we practiced empty hands against long blade trainers. He got pretty good at it but expressed doubts about facing a real blade, so I brought a sharp machete to class. We worked with it at half speed and he survived but he still expressed doubts. We picked up the pace until he felt that it was too fast to be safe. He still expressed doubts and I must admit I let my ego (my wife says my secret hero identity is EgoMan!) get the better of me and I had him come at me at speed with whatever attack he wanted. I passed and controlled his first 2 swings and manged to disarm his thrust. This was another adrenaline rush and I was buzzing when he lost the blade. I was pointing out that he could do the same disarm and survive and he was pointing to the gash down my left foream, that I didn't even feel.
Donna, no matter how long you train or how realistic you try to make it, with padded attackers, aluminum trainers or even dulled out real knives, it's just never the same and as Smoke said it's a rush.
Safety disclaimer. Don't nobody try this, no how, nowhere, cause you'll get hurt and I don't want you crying to me!
- Joined
- Nov 11, 1999
- Messages
- 398
=====
Last edited:
Donna, it's not just the whole
"I'm facing a blade" though for some it's enough.
A lot of modern MA equipment is meant for 'safety' and construction is different from the originals in terms of weight, size etc. Pick up a real antique and it will 'speak' to you. There are certain moves you can/cannot do with some weapons.
Another thing is control of your technique and range. In addition to the weight etc of the real thing. Remember that a lot of folks cut with the flat of the blade and some do inappropriate (damaging to weapon or handler) moves with certain weapons. Some will never realize this. Realize the blade is not for every FMA person.
I can add some more but that's another thing. With time you can increase the speed but realize you can be cut and not know it. In one session, I received about 5 or so pokes and cuts on wrist. My teacher didn't realize it and wasn't too happy. In mainstream schools, the session would never happen as it would be an insurance nightmare.
Here's a quickie.
I did machette/bolo work with an instructor. His students (all experienced LEOs) asked if the machettes were real, to which the instructor chopped into his fence. Not one minute after we went into the drill did all watching leave into the next training area.
"I'm facing a blade" though for some it's enough.
A lot of modern MA equipment is meant for 'safety' and construction is different from the originals in terms of weight, size etc. Pick up a real antique and it will 'speak' to you. There are certain moves you can/cannot do with some weapons.
Another thing is control of your technique and range. In addition to the weight etc of the real thing. Remember that a lot of folks cut with the flat of the blade and some do inappropriate (damaging to weapon or handler) moves with certain weapons. Some will never realize this. Realize the blade is not for every FMA person.
I can add some more but that's another thing. With time you can increase the speed but realize you can be cut and not know it. In one session, I received about 5 or so pokes and cuts on wrist. My teacher didn't realize it and wasn't too happy. In mainstream schools, the session would never happen as it would be an insurance nightmare.
Here's a quickie.
I did machette/bolo work with an instructor. His students (all experienced LEOs) asked if the machettes were real, to which the instructor chopped into his fence. Not one minute after we went into the drill did all watching leave into the next training area.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 1998
- Messages
- 2,395
In the Inayan System of Eskrima, we have to face live blades at a certain point, I think it is Guro. We have practiced disarms with live blade, but after the capture, just to learn how to disarm without cutting yourself.
Any sort of real speed drills with a live blade would be nuts. The first principle of bladed combat: you will get cut.
[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 06-26-2000).]
Any sort of real speed drills with a live blade would be nuts. The first principle of bladed combat: you will get cut.
[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 06-26-2000).]
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2000
- Messages
- 261
Nevermind.
[This message has been edited by Endura Duck (edited 06-27-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Endura Duck (edited 06-27-2000).]
If you play with sharp,pointy things you will get hurt.This not firearms training which is quite safe,even on hot ranges.
You can use bayonets,or a MK2 with their scabbards.Some have a latch.They are not going to fall off.
None the less,if you want to advance to a certain point,only the live blade will take you there.
You can use bayonets,or a MK2 with their scabbards.Some have a latch.They are not going to fall off.
None the less,if you want to advance to a certain point,only the live blade will take you there.
Some more comments on this matter:
Although I don't know squat about FMA, I had a bit of live blade training(of a kind) abt 15 yrs ago during my national service when I and some other guys had to do these rifle drills in front of the president(plus live TV)for our little country's National Day. The rifles(M-16)had some kind of old, used bayonets on them that were chromed but were still pointy and had a bit of edge.
In these stupid drills, one had to flip the rifle all over the place with the bayonet on it. Invariably, after hours of training in the tropical sun, someone would slip and a rifle would spin off in the wrong direction.
So one of my colleagues threw his rifle bayonet-point-first into the back of someone's upper-arm. It went in quite deep. Hello hospital, rest of you carry on.
Thus in live-blade training, even if you are careful, sometimes the other guy is not.
I remember during our shooting practices in the army, we'd always have to run all over the place and then shoot. If some idiot fell behind and tripped over, he would usually squeeze off by mistake. And being shot is probably just as bad as being cut, correct me if I am mistaken.
Once I saw one guy fire by mistake into a sandbag that another guy was sitting on. The sandbag literally exploded.
But I'm sure all people who have endured suffering in the armed forces have seen this sort of thing.
So live training, whether with blades or guns always carries an intense element of risk that must never, never be forgotten.
I can understand it when one seeks the heightened experience of using live blades,
but for myself, I've always wanted to reduce risk in whatever I do, and I don't think you gain very much from the experience.
If one wanted a heightened emotional state, I think would be best to enter a MA substantial-contact competition, and fight against unfriendly people trying their best to mess you up and beat you. And the outcome has to be very impt to you, it can't be something you do just for the experience or to learn from. You have to want to win so badly that it is almost the most important thing in the world for you. Then you will get that "rush" when you walk onto that mat or into that ring.
If you can deal with that feeling and still perform and overcome, then I think you've learnt something valuable.
Best wishes from SYK
Although I don't know squat about FMA, I had a bit of live blade training(of a kind) abt 15 yrs ago during my national service when I and some other guys had to do these rifle drills in front of the president(plus live TV)for our little country's National Day. The rifles(M-16)had some kind of old, used bayonets on them that were chromed but were still pointy and had a bit of edge.
In these stupid drills, one had to flip the rifle all over the place with the bayonet on it. Invariably, after hours of training in the tropical sun, someone would slip and a rifle would spin off in the wrong direction.
So one of my colleagues threw his rifle bayonet-point-first into the back of someone's upper-arm. It went in quite deep. Hello hospital, rest of you carry on.
Thus in live-blade training, even if you are careful, sometimes the other guy is not.
I remember during our shooting practices in the army, we'd always have to run all over the place and then shoot. If some idiot fell behind and tripped over, he would usually squeeze off by mistake. And being shot is probably just as bad as being cut, correct me if I am mistaken.
Once I saw one guy fire by mistake into a sandbag that another guy was sitting on. The sandbag literally exploded.
But I'm sure all people who have endured suffering in the armed forces have seen this sort of thing.
So live training, whether with blades or guns always carries an intense element of risk that must never, never be forgotten.
I can understand it when one seeks the heightened experience of using live blades,
but for myself, I've always wanted to reduce risk in whatever I do, and I don't think you gain very much from the experience.
If one wanted a heightened emotional state, I think would be best to enter a MA substantial-contact competition, and fight against unfriendly people trying their best to mess you up and beat you. And the outcome has to be very impt to you, it can't be something you do just for the experience or to learn from. You have to want to win so badly that it is almost the most important thing in the world for you. Then you will get that "rush" when you walk onto that mat or into that ring.
If you can deal with that feeling and still perform and overcome, then I think you've learnt something valuable.
Best wishes from SYK
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 75,809
This reminds me of a current thread on the Riddle about catching arrows. There are things that some of us could pull off for real, but training them for real ... if you only screwed up once in a hundred times....
-Cougar :{)
-Cougar :{)
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2000
- Messages
- 15
I know alot of people have differnt views concerning training. That very understandable. what I am mentioning here is some insight from another angle, more less food for thought.
I train in Pencak Silat. All my instructors are from Indonesia. Every one of them has made me do live blade training. using wooden blades didn't last long at all. When it did come time to use live blade, they put tape on the knife. That also was for a short time. In between drills, I practicing cutting hanging rope or wooden dowels ranging from 1" on up to 2". As well as other materials. This was to get me use to the grip of the knife under hard use. It was at this point how much I really appreciated certain grips on other knives. Now after all these years, I am very comfortable using live blades. As a matter a fact the only time I use the wooden knife is when I am sparring with one of the Pendakars or gurus. When we spar, it is at full speed and yes I use to get cut by the wooden knife.
I have only received a couple but they sure made me learn what i was taught. As crazy as this may sound to the most of you, I feel it was necessary to go through this training. Reason is this training has helped in a number of live blade encounters. After 8 years in the military and 2 years in protection field, I have thanked my teachers a thousand times for the training experiance.
Again this is just food for thought.I know there are many ways to skin a cat. Good luck.
Yours in the Arts
I train in Pencak Silat. All my instructors are from Indonesia. Every one of them has made me do live blade training. using wooden blades didn't last long at all. When it did come time to use live blade, they put tape on the knife. That also was for a short time. In between drills, I practicing cutting hanging rope or wooden dowels ranging from 1" on up to 2". As well as other materials. This was to get me use to the grip of the knife under hard use. It was at this point how much I really appreciated certain grips on other knives. Now after all these years, I am very comfortable using live blades. As a matter a fact the only time I use the wooden knife is when I am sparring with one of the Pendakars or gurus. When we spar, it is at full speed and yes I use to get cut by the wooden knife.
I have only received a couple but they sure made me learn what i was taught. As crazy as this may sound to the most of you, I feel it was necessary to go through this training. Reason is this training has helped in a number of live blade encounters. After 8 years in the military and 2 years in protection field, I have thanked my teachers a thousand times for the training experiance.
Again this is just food for thought.I know there are many ways to skin a cat. Good luck.
Yours in the Arts
Cougar and J_Ringo,
While I have never seen it demonstrated, the Japanese supposedly teach Yadomi-jutsu, the Art of Arrow Cutting. The Samurai, who did not carry a shield, would simply use their swords to 'cut' the arrows out of the air. The articles I have read about this make comments about the 'steely eyed samurai' watching a flight of arrows come at him and making sure he only cuts the ones that would have hit him. This is normally accompanied by a drawing or wood block print of a valiant samurai, standing on a pile of dead enemies, with several arrows bent over his sword.
Oh yeah, I just reread my initial reply here and I just wanted to clarify that the student that came at me with the machete was someone I hade been working with for months and for a couple of hours that evening and I had a good idea of what attacks he would use. It was not sparring and he obviously was not trying to kill me.....but, it sure was rush!
While I have never seen it demonstrated, the Japanese supposedly teach Yadomi-jutsu, the Art of Arrow Cutting. The Samurai, who did not carry a shield, would simply use their swords to 'cut' the arrows out of the air. The articles I have read about this make comments about the 'steely eyed samurai' watching a flight of arrows come at him and making sure he only cuts the ones that would have hit him. This is normally accompanied by a drawing or wood block print of a valiant samurai, standing on a pile of dead enemies, with several arrows bent over his sword.
Oh yeah, I just reread my initial reply here and I just wanted to clarify that the student that came at me with the machete was someone I hade been working with for months and for a couple of hours that evening and I had a good idea of what attacks he would use. It was not sparring and he obviously was not trying to kill me.....but, it sure was rush!
Donna and any lurking newbies.
Live blade also teaches your precision and forces you to check your cutting alignment, sometimes the edge isn't properly aligned.
Also take the throat cut, you can check your distance and accuracy while your partner can test his distance and get used to the attacking line.
Wooden blades aren't a joke either, welts, points catching on sleeve cuffs can happen (I used to wear baggy flannel shirts to class) which leads me to another thing, common injuries. Besides some wrist/hand area cuts/pokes there is the common thrust into the parry hand. You tried to parry a thrust but too late the point goes straight into your hand. I've had this happen with wood and it stung like crazy.
Another thing with steel, you cock back too far and a point will go into your back or opposite shoulder or something. I had a puncture wound from doing a redondo with a Spyderco Endura. A quarter inch deep or so of pain and a keyboard splattered with blood, no kidding. Lesson learned, keep point away from you!
Pass the band aids.
Live blade also teaches your precision and forces you to check your cutting alignment, sometimes the edge isn't properly aligned.
Also take the throat cut, you can check your distance and accuracy while your partner can test his distance and get used to the attacking line.
Wooden blades aren't a joke either, welts, points catching on sleeve cuffs can happen (I used to wear baggy flannel shirts to class) which leads me to another thing, common injuries. Besides some wrist/hand area cuts/pokes there is the common thrust into the parry hand. You tried to parry a thrust but too late the point goes straight into your hand. I've had this happen with wood and it stung like crazy.
Another thing with steel, you cock back too far and a point will go into your back or opposite shoulder or something. I had a puncture wound from doing a redondo with a Spyderco Endura. A quarter inch deep or so of pain and a keyboard splattered with blood, no kidding. Lesson learned, keep point away from you!
Pass the band aids.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2000
- Messages
- 15
I most certainly agree that wooden knife stings real hard. For many years I carried a scar on my ring finger when I misjudged my own block. Your right it stung real bad. I didn't lose my grip on my knife, but the thought crossed my mind. What I remember the most about that was how fast the knife was moving when it cut my finger.And yes, oh what a rush!!!!!!.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 8,917
There is a fine line between realism and madness.
I do not need anyone to launch a 230gr. Hydrashok JHP at me in order to fully understand the ramifications of the training I am engaged in.
A Drill or a sparring match is still not a fight. It seems as though there are better and safer ways to train and this seems like an unreasonable, silly risk. One slip and you are graveyard dead. Edged weapons are lethal. You talk of the sweat that runs down your brow...one slip, one missed step, you're dead or your training partner is dead. Then you will get to practice in prison. And depending on the person, maybe not you guys, but if someone did in fact slip, maybe that is where the person belongs...in prison.
If a partner needs to be "tuned in" to things so he takes training seriously, using a live blade is not really the way to go about it. It is his dedication and attention that is in question.
Now, why this appears to be an adrenaline game to me is this...if your partner is not really intending on killing you, what is the point?
If I take my SIG P-220 and jack a round up the big hole, you going to feel comfortable performing a disarm on me? If you f**** up or I do, the result could just be a round through your shoulder, no big deal really. Or it might blow a bigass hole in your head.
The parallel is this, you practice disarms with a live blade, my fault, your fault, nobody's fault, knife might land in your shoulder, no really big deal with modern medicine...or it might go in your throat. In which case...you might very well die. All it takes is about one inch to put you in a long, metal box with handles if you have a live blade. Respect them and realize that this is not the way to do things anymore. If you are pulling back so you do not drive it into them, what are you doing there anyway?
Take up skydiving, buy a 5.0 Mustang...do something to quell the adrenaline you desire.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am a sissy, I might be right too.
I use real, dulled folders and dull aluminum and I have no problem whatsoever with orienting the edge so that I would actually be cutting. That is why I do not use dowels. That is why I have seen rather high level Arnis players who never use knives and never could for real. Because they are not used to orienting the edge.
I do not need anyone to launch a 230gr. Hydrashok JHP at me in order to fully understand the ramifications of the training I am engaged in.
A Drill or a sparring match is still not a fight. It seems as though there are better and safer ways to train and this seems like an unreasonable, silly risk. One slip and you are graveyard dead. Edged weapons are lethal. You talk of the sweat that runs down your brow...one slip, one missed step, you're dead or your training partner is dead. Then you will get to practice in prison. And depending on the person, maybe not you guys, but if someone did in fact slip, maybe that is where the person belongs...in prison.
If a partner needs to be "tuned in" to things so he takes training seriously, using a live blade is not really the way to go about it. It is his dedication and attention that is in question.
Now, why this appears to be an adrenaline game to me is this...if your partner is not really intending on killing you, what is the point?
If I take my SIG P-220 and jack a round up the big hole, you going to feel comfortable performing a disarm on me? If you f**** up or I do, the result could just be a round through your shoulder, no big deal really. Or it might blow a bigass hole in your head.
The parallel is this, you practice disarms with a live blade, my fault, your fault, nobody's fault, knife might land in your shoulder, no really big deal with modern medicine...or it might go in your throat. In which case...you might very well die. All it takes is about one inch to put you in a long, metal box with handles if you have a live blade. Respect them and realize that this is not the way to do things anymore. If you are pulling back so you do not drive it into them, what are you doing there anyway?
Take up skydiving, buy a 5.0 Mustang...do something to quell the adrenaline you desire.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am a sissy, I might be right too.
I use real, dulled folders and dull aluminum and I have no problem whatsoever with orienting the edge so that I would actually be cutting. That is why I do not use dowels. That is why I have seen rather high level Arnis players who never use knives and never could for real. Because they are not used to orienting the edge.
I think I agree with Smoke when he said that the live blade training makes you familiar with orienting the edge and getting used to the balance and weight of real weapons.
However, there are now quite a few dummy blunt weapons on the market, so why now use the live weapons?
Why not use a blunt weapon and actually do things as if they are real, with actual cutting motions, rather than use a real blade and not make real contact? If you want to focus, then bet x$100 that you can "cut" the other guy before he "cuts" you.
No offence to anybody, but I also feel that live blade training in something from the past that is no longer necessary with today's modern similar equipment/training blades. Teachers who don't adopt new and better methods of training are common in the world of MA. When my dad learnt Karate from the japanese 40 years ago, they would make half of the students lie on their backs while the other half "ran" on their stomachs. As far as I know, nobody does this nowadays.
I suppose there will be many opinions abt this, and I'll defer to others who have more experience than me.
Best wishes from SYK.
[This message has been edited by SYK (edited 07-02-2000).]
However, there are now quite a few dummy blunt weapons on the market, so why now use the live weapons?
Why not use a blunt weapon and actually do things as if they are real, with actual cutting motions, rather than use a real blade and not make real contact? If you want to focus, then bet x$100 that you can "cut" the other guy before he "cuts" you.
No offence to anybody, but I also feel that live blade training in something from the past that is no longer necessary with today's modern similar equipment/training blades. Teachers who don't adopt new and better methods of training are common in the world of MA. When my dad learnt Karate from the japanese 40 years ago, they would make half of the students lie on their backs while the other half "ran" on their stomachs. As far as I know, nobody does this nowadays.
I suppose there will be many opinions abt this, and I'll defer to others who have more experience than me.
Best wishes from SYK.
[This message has been edited by SYK (edited 07-02-2000).]
I won't lie, live blade is an individual choice and there are some valid safety reasons for not using them. I've almost impaled myself on sabres using an improper entry.
I still think the weight of many modern trainers do not replicate the originals because you've still got folks doing abanico moves with kampilans and wondering why the move doesn't feel right. But okay, if students can get to examine real weapons and appreciate construction and such then that's fine.
I forgot to mention, other antique tools like spears, maces, some shields, and war clubs even kamagong sticks are just as dangerous as some folks might not exercise as much caution. I've even been nicked by dull flexible tai chi gims.
I still think the weight of many modern trainers do not replicate the originals because you've still got folks doing abanico moves with kampilans and wondering why the move doesn't feel right. But okay, if students can get to examine real weapons and appreciate construction and such then that's fine.
I forgot to mention, other antique tools like spears, maces, some shields, and war clubs even kamagong sticks are just as dangerous as some folks might not exercise as much caution. I've even been nicked by dull flexible tai chi gims.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2000
- Messages
- 15
I forgot to add this note, that all the live blade drills that were done was always done Pendakar/student. Never have I seen it any other way.And also we never sparred with live blades. Truly asking for punishment there. But the knife drills were done with live blades. Thats another thing, I have not received much exposure to the FMA other than basic training in Pekiti Tirsia. If I am not mistaken(which I very well could be) there are alot of differnces between FMA blade drill and Blade drills in Pencak Silat. I gather this from readin this forum. Again As I mentioned before this was food for thought.
As far as gun disarms, of course you dont need a live gun to practice but I do know the Israeli commandos practice gun disarms with blanks and goggles wearing tshirts to check for blast marks. I saw this when I was in Beriut. Some of you will think this is crazy but, I guess I was trained during a different era in both martial arts and in the military. The school of thought in my time was to train as real as possible so you will come home alive.The old chinese proverb, the more you bleed in training, the less you bleed in war.Even then unfortunately, some still dont make it home.
As far as gun disarms, of course you dont need a live gun to practice but I do know the Israeli commandos practice gun disarms with blanks and goggles wearing tshirts to check for blast marks. I saw this when I was in Beriut. Some of you will think this is crazy but, I guess I was trained during a different era in both martial arts and in the military. The school of thought in my time was to train as real as possible so you will come home alive.The old chinese proverb, the more you bleed in training, the less you bleed in war.Even then unfortunately, some still dont make it home.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 8,917
I'm sure that the Israeli's have probably invested in Simunitions by now.
And a firearm loaded with blanks and you have eye protection on, is basically only a threat to your ears, unless the muzzle is pressed against your flesh, which is what killed a Hollywood Actor in the mid-1980's. The Show was called, "Cover-up" if I remember correctly. What I do remember correctly is, his name was John Erik Hexum and he put a live Smith & Wesson M29 .44 Magnum revolver to his head with a blank in it, pressing it to his temple and fired the weapon. The weapon discharged, a blank round, propelling a piece of the skull into his brain.
A firearm loaded with blanks at arm's length is still not a razor sharp edged weapon or a loaded handgun.
I just don't think that it is even remotely a necessity any longer to do this. The key words here are, "I don't think." Hey! If you want to do it, that is great! You want the rush, that's cool too. Maybe it is just me.
What bothers me is this, and it bothers me about sparring as well...the live blade is apparently being used to offset the nasty habit people have in sparring of not taking a weapon seriously.
Sparring is something that has been debated on here before. It is good to teach reflexes, but without the proper mindset, it becomes duelling, or an unrealistic game of "tag, you're it!"
I have seen people spar with knives and they have done things they would never do on the street because the risk was not there that they would get laid open, now, the flip side to that is, you temper that with using live blades occasionally? O.K., if you want to...
I guess what I am doing at this time in my own development is creating my own thing, and that is defending yourself with steel and not duelling. If the guy is not going to try to put steel on me, I am not going to dance, I am going to not take my eyes off of him and back out slow. If the guy feeds me, I am going to have to deal with that, or if there are multiples, I am going to have to know how to attack as well...but a lot of what gets discussed is pure knife fighting alright...and I guess I am drifting more to fighting with knives as opposed to "knife fighting." There is a difference.
And a firearm loaded with blanks and you have eye protection on, is basically only a threat to your ears, unless the muzzle is pressed against your flesh, which is what killed a Hollywood Actor in the mid-1980's. The Show was called, "Cover-up" if I remember correctly. What I do remember correctly is, his name was John Erik Hexum and he put a live Smith & Wesson M29 .44 Magnum revolver to his head with a blank in it, pressing it to his temple and fired the weapon. The weapon discharged, a blank round, propelling a piece of the skull into his brain.
A firearm loaded with blanks at arm's length is still not a razor sharp edged weapon or a loaded handgun.
I just don't think that it is even remotely a necessity any longer to do this. The key words here are, "I don't think." Hey! If you want to do it, that is great! You want the rush, that's cool too. Maybe it is just me.
What bothers me is this, and it bothers me about sparring as well...the live blade is apparently being used to offset the nasty habit people have in sparring of not taking a weapon seriously.
Sparring is something that has been debated on here before. It is good to teach reflexes, but without the proper mindset, it becomes duelling, or an unrealistic game of "tag, you're it!"
I have seen people spar with knives and they have done things they would never do on the street because the risk was not there that they would get laid open, now, the flip side to that is, you temper that with using live blades occasionally? O.K., if you want to...
I guess what I am doing at this time in my own development is creating my own thing, and that is defending yourself with steel and not duelling. If the guy is not going to try to put steel on me, I am not going to dance, I am going to not take my eyes off of him and back out slow. If the guy feeds me, I am going to have to deal with that, or if there are multiples, I am going to have to know how to attack as well...but a lot of what gets discussed is pure knife fighting alright...and I guess I am drifting more to fighting with knives as opposed to "knife fighting." There is a difference.