Live Forever, Now

if you losslessly backup a person's persona, memory etc., then erase his brain, then restore it fom the backup, have you killed him? will he know the difference? what if you restore them to another erased body/brain? is the soul in the binary bits? have we created a monster? if so, what kukhri would we use to kill a binary monster?
 
Kronk you think he'd be like Frosty the Snowman and sing Happy Birthday each time you restored him.

What if you opened the program twice and ran them simultaneously? Woo hoo.
 
Here's a link to a good webpage on connectionism

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/connectionism/

The book, as I recall, was named Philosophy of the Mind (apt title, non?)
I think the author was Ravencroft, but I'm not certain on that part.

As for defining things...definitions are extremely important, but it's also important to understand how arbitrary they are. I CAN define "mind," the trouble is most other scientists and philosophers wouldn't agree with me, and I don't agree with them...defintions are only there for ease of communication, so if we don't agree on them, it's either pointless or confusing...

That said, there are four major attempts to define the human consciousness, or rather subdivide...self awareness, monitoring, phenomenalism and access...
In order:
self-awareness -You call yourself self...you can think in the first person...
Monitoring - the ability to have thoughts about thoughts, often called HOT (higher order thoughts)
Phenomenalism - the ability to experience something...to see red or taste grapes
Access is a bit trickier, but it relates to memory and tends to bring up phenomenal experiences (which, in general, are any experience)
 
if you losslessly backup a person's persona, memory etc., then erase his brain, then restore it fom the backup, have you killed him? will he know the difference? what if you restore them to another erased body/brain? is the soul in the binary bits?
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To him, he would never know there was a gap. The reality of consciousness is very probably that there are such gaps in our actual day to day lives, very very frequently (multiple times in a second), but consider this: if there is a gap in experience, or awareness, whatever you want to call it, you must definingly not know of its existence, otherwise you would have experienced something...

The situation gets worse, unfortunately...if we buy my premise here, it's possible that time itself doesn't go "forward." If time jumped around between random moments in history/future, the people in those moments would never be aware of it.

Of course, I debate that time is radically different than common perception, so under my system, this isn't a problem, but another topic.
 
uhhh.....

I think this is where I need to say it again...

"A man has got to know his limitations." :cool:
 
Spectre said:
Heh.

The site creator threatened to join us here. ;)

John, my project was a short story!
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Threatened, he says? I never threaten :D

To clarify, this was a project for a Post-Humanism/Sci Fi class I'm taking (two seats behind John actually). It was/is a short story, but my web site kind of developed a life of it's own.

John/Spectre is going to be my chief of security when I am a filthy rich cult leader.

Anyhoo, the story is based loosely on Ray Kurzweil's theory about the technological singularity occuring within the next oh, 20 years or so. He's a brilliant man, but convinced that he's going to be downloaded to a computer if he takes his vitamins (200 or so a day!) and lives long enough. The link is on the Purgatory site if you want a good laugh. Don't forget to check out Ramona, his virtual 'immaterial girl' alter ego.

On a side note: Does anyone know how to upload a custom avatar? Namely yours truely's ugly mug?

~Maryska

(BTW, Andy, that Ben Franklin quote is one of my favorites lol)
 
Maryska,

Great to see you, and welcome to the Cantina!

Any chance you'd feel like sharing your story (or excerpts) here?

I think you might have to pay a membership fee to get an av*. Sorry. On the bright side, if you stick around awhile and decide you want a few extra perks, the lowest tier membership is only $10/yr.

(For anyone interested, the lovely Maryska is here.)

---
AM, thanks for the link. It does seem that phenomenalism can be missing in real people, though, especially as a result of accident or disease.

John


*If you did have that option, it would be under "user CP" at the upper left of your screen.
 
This is most certainly true, and a very important point. Many people define the difference between humans and animals as our level of rational thought, but I am quite opposed to this idea, based on certain examples like the ones you propose. Are babies humans? Coma patients? Of course they are--even though they very probably do not experience consciousness the way you and I do.

Phenomenal consciousness is a really interesting topic and there are some interesting conterversies involving it, most notably a certain thought experiment called the knowledge experiment, as I recall...it's too long for me to explain here (I write inbetween writing my real world science papers!), but I think you might find it interesting...though, I tend not to see it as the problem some other folks do.
 
At your leisure, could you drop me an email? To JRShirley(at)gmail.com.

Thanks,

John
 
SamuraiDave said:
I think this is where I step in with a line from Dirty Harry....

"A man has got to know his limitations."
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"Do you feel lucky?"

"Make my day."

Also seem appropriate
 
..The lovely maryska.
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Oh lord, I'm going to have to get you for starting that, John lol. ;)

Sure I'd love to share. It's not my best story, but it never is when I'm trying to accomplish some specific point for a class, I'm afraid. I'm too chaotic a writer for that.

Here it is here... http://www.purgatorystation.net/story

This thread has gotten quite interesting. I'm going to have to finish reading that link on Connectionism after class. I've actually heard a lot about the theory working in the public education system, believe it or not, but I never knew it had a term.
 
Then Col. Carter and Daniel from SG-1 busted in with their P-90's roaring... down went the monks... "Blessed are the Ori my @#$" the buxom blond shouted....

oh wait... wrong story...:o
 
SamuraiDave said:
Then Col. Carter and Daniel from SG-1 busted in with their P-90's roaring... down went the monks... "Blessed are the Ori my @#$" the buxom blond shouted....
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That was the next scene I swear LOL. :D
 
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