Lobbying for better knife steel

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beera

Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
157
Please don't be angry :p

I had three out of my 5 S30v chipped. I will not mention brands to avoid flames. There is so many anecdotal evidence that this steel is the biscuit of all so called super steels. Please don't give me that (heat-treat) talk again, heat treat was (never a problem with vg10 (a good steel

s30v was supposed to be the answer to the Japanese vg10. Well, I think it was not a good answer.

The problem is that it became the steel of choice in almost all the high end production and custom folders. You cant avoid it . Its almost blasphemous to say anything bad about it because of the investment involved and marketing and pride.

I think knife users and makers should search and demand better steel.

Its bad steel in my opinion
 
I'm sorry your knives didn't work out or you. I have never had any problems with s30v. I don't any hard whacking with my knives. I have an axe, a machete, and a Huqvarna for serious wood chipping.

I did use a brand new Spyderco Military s30v CF last weekend to prune new growth off of the shrubs and bushes around the house. Other than getting a little sappy covered it didn't have any problems.
 
I only have a couple of knives in S30V, but I have yet to chip the blades on any of them.

What were you doing with the knives when you chipped the blades?

Only blade that I have chipped lately was the VG-10 blade on my Centofante 3. It chipped when I was cutting Celottex insulation, which is pretty tough stuff. I think it is more a funtion of the thin blade geometry that steel.
 
but I don't use it very hard. I'm a suburbanite office worker, occasional camper and home handyman. It gets a light workout, at best. It holds a pretty good edge but in all honesty I would carry it if it were AUS-8, 440C or Sandvik because of the ergos. Guess I'm not much of a steel snob. YMMV

Frank
 
If you are looking for a bette blade steel the first thing you need to decide is what is better?
If you want something that will not chip or break and don't care about edge retention make it out of 1018. It is inexpensive and will not break, won't cut worth a darn either.

If you are really interested in a new blade steel make up your wish list and see if you can get a steel company interested in making it. S30V was created that way by a few knife makers who came to me and wanted something better and they were the ones who defined better. Their opinion of what they wanted may be different from yours. That is why there are so many materials available. And there is no one best steel. It all depends on what you want it to do.

Dick Barber
 
If you're looking for a better steel, why not try one of the older ones? I like 440C myself. Or, there's always BG42 which was pretty good.

-Anthony
 
Aus-8, 12C27, and AEB-L are all tougher than S30V, and they can all be heat treated to 59-60 Rc. Unfortunately, Aus-8 is often heat treated low.
 
I only used my knives on dry wood. One of them is marketed as a survival folder. :rolleyes:

BG42 is supposed to be good. Never had it, but i guess u can only have it on custom knives these days.
 
My Dominator S30V chipped in three places near the tip when debarking small limbs for throw sticks for my dog.

This is a recurring thread about S30V chipping and I am not sure why some are vulnerable and some are not.

There is even a video out showing an S30V knife being hammered into steel bar point first without any chipping or damage.

Cliff, I know you have responded to this before but can you recommend the best brands for chip resistance? Or is the problem just random with all brands? What is the cause? S30V is just to expensive to be wasting money on the crap.

No need to mention the losers. Thanks.
 
beera said:
Please don't be angry :p

I had three out of my 5 S30v chipped. I will not mention brands to avoid flames.
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Why not? Your experience is no less legitimate than someone else's, and we're all adults here.
 
My $.02 is that S30V is a very finnicky steel. I only have a couple of knives in this steel so I'm no expert, but I think that in a lot of cases the chipping is the result of the edge being overheated during the final factory sharpening. I think that is what happened with my knives because they chipped during mild use when I first received them. They no longer chip though and I think that's because after a couple of sharpenings I got down to the good steel.
 
Crompal said:
If you want something that will not chip or break and don't care about edge retention make it out of 1018. It is inexpensive and will not break, won't cut worth a darn either.
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Mild steel cuts very well, it doesn't of course stay sharp as long as a high end tool steel of course, but there is a big jump between S30V and 1018. The comments about chipping with S30V have not been as frequent about other stainless so there is no need to drop back to 1018, those other stainless could simply be used. Not to mention S30V was specifically promoted for its toughness.

digdeep said:
My Dominator S30V chipped in three places near the tip when debarking small limbs for throw sticks for my dog.
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That is the sad part, also horrible are people defending it by implying that is somehow abusive to use knives for light chopping, cutting woods and so forth, especially considering its use in "tactical" knives and the fact that all that type of work was done and continues to be done with other stainless steels.

I am not sure why some are vulnerable and some are not.
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It is an interesting question, there are a lot of theories, unfortunately there is little actual facts provided on returns and far too many excuses made for problematic performance. The failure rates are extreme, 3 out of 5, who would tolerate a 60% defect rate, and that type of experience isn't uncommon.

I have had good experience with Spyderco's S30V, no it isn't comparable to toughness to tool steels as is often promoted, my small Sebenza is solid in some areas but very poor in others as noted (plywood), my custom from Phil Wilson is solid across the board so far.

-Cliff
 
I agree with kamagong, I have posted before that I have a Manix that was aweful to get an edge and keep it ( no chipping that I could tell ) but after two or three sharpenings it produce an awesome edge that holds a good long time. I have had no chipping problems with s30v from Spyderco. I also had a BM Skirmish have the same problem after two or three sharpenings it was great. Mabey manufacturers should take note and try to correct this, then mabey threads about s30v chipping won't be needed. Thanks.:D
 
I have this fear that S30V will go the way of 440V(S60V).

What then, another steel?

I'm figurin' (without data, so it's a guess-tamate) it's a heat treat problem or heat during manufacture.

Nothin' to do but disseminate experiences and watch, I suppose.
 
S30V is certainly the most overrated steel in the industry. It is very good, but it's definitely not the be-all, end-all solution for all applications like it's often made out to be.
 
ive heard bg42 only comes in round bars so its difficult/expensive to make blades out of it if you dont have access to a waterjetmachine or laser to make flat pieces, yeah btw wouldnt overheating make the blade softer a notch or 2 on the hrc-scale instead of up, actally making it tougher, well unless you got it up to 2000°ish or so that is.
 
if you think that S30V is good steel, please don't buy a 1000 pound knife and think you will use it like a normal knife. I am not talking to collector's am talking to users.

Please, just sharpen a dry stick with your S30V knife. then tell me its a survivor's knife
 
beera said:
BG42 is supposed to be good. Never had it, but i guess u can
only have it on custom knives these days.
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Actually, you should be able to get a Buck 110 from the custom shop with BG42. It doesn't add that much to the total either. I have a Buck 112 in BG42 and its VERY sharp and keeps that edge for a long time.

-Anthony
 
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