Originally posted by fishbulb
1. I was not reffering to friction on the pivot, but rather to the way a lockback bar has to "ride" along the blade tang. In my experience this results in a noticeably non-linear force required to fully open the knife.
2. The vast majority of lockbacks that I have seen have distinct vertical blade play. This includes both Spydercos and other quality makes.
3. Yes, it is pretty easy to keep that hole from gumming up. It is even easier if you don't have to worry about it at all. This is a particular concern if the knife is going to be used outdoors or elsewhere where there is a lot of debris to clog things up.
4. Everything that I have seen indicates that the actual rate of Axis lock breakage is extremely low. After several years on the market there have been maybe 6 or 7 posts here that an Axis spring broke. Generally, a broken spring doesn't hurt the knife at all. There have been several occasions where somebody did not even realize that one was busted until they took the knife part for cleaning. Catastrophic failure and "wearing out" are quite different. Lockbacks get sloppy as they wear.
5. I suppose that there are specific situations where a flickable knife is a bad thing. I have yet to hear of anybody being prosecuted for having an Axis lock knife because it can be flicked open. If one is that worried about it then perhaps carrying a knife at all may be a mistake.
6. I'm not entirely sure what the point of this one was. If made correctly both an Axis lock and a Lockback are very strong.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "ill-founded". Every statement I've made has been a result of personal experience with the various locking formats.
Are there any advantages that a lockback has over an Axis or Arc lock that I may have missed?
1. then you're saying something that I don't consider have anything to do with smooth, and that's a point taken. The way the lockback is created will have it riding the tang until it's opened. I don't know how you open your knives but that have never been any of my concerns.
2. the vast majority of the lockback that I've seen
does not have vertical blade play. I own and handled 5 Spyderco lockbacks, and FYI, the bladeplay on my Chinook isn't vertical, more like a wobble that could be solved with the pivot to be tightened. From the classic Endura, to the miniature Ladybug, I've yet to be able to make it have vertical blade play. If you say you've handled a remarkable amount of Spyderco lockbacks that have vertical bladeplay, perhaps either I'm having very good luck, or you're having very bad luck. I don't seem to hear vertical blade play (spare the Chinook) be a big problem in either the Spyderco forum in here or the one in Spyderco's site.
3. For use in outdoors settings, then I would agree that not having something gumming up the works would be a lot better. However, I would be just as confident carrying a Spyderco lockback than a Benchmade Axis lock.
4. Have you seen a personal catastrophic failure of a lockback? I can tell you I haven't. The only knives that I seem to be able to make them fail are linerlocks with a smooth ramp. It is true that the Axis lock does not fail catastrophically easily, but I'm sure the breakage of the omega springs isn't the few times that have been reported in BFC. Lockback also fails more than reported. If you should worry about lock failure (like in a outdoor setting), carry a fixed blade.
As to wearing out, I've also yet to hear of complaints about lock backs getting very sloppy. It probably does make it less secure, but not to the point that your words make it sound like.
5. I don't specifically worry about the law, but having a blade with good blade retention is a good thing. If I do somehow manage to get a cop ask to see my pocket knife, I don't think he's going to take it away easily because of the blade retention. I do have tested a couple of Axis locks (courtesy of jjcoolay's AFCK Axis prototype and a small carbon fiber axis), and I know it's not likely it would be much of a concern, but the fact of the matter is, the Axis lock's blade retension is less than the lcokback. Is it going to open in your pocket? No.
For me, blade retention is a bigger concern than flickability. Flicking a knife is mostly a matter of technique, however I've had knives open in my pocket and nick my hands before.
The ultimate breaking strength of the Axis lock is very high, likely higher than that of a similar quality lockback. Perhaps somebody can confirm this with some actual testing numbers.
It is correct that Axis lock is seen very safe, and very strong, and also the lockback is very strong too. The point I was trying to make is that Spyderco seems to be unsatisfied when their knives are not up to their requirements, to the point where knives that I deem safe will be deem unsatisfactory by them. I don't see why there's a need for this super-uber-ultimate strong lock when the idea of having a folding knife isn't to beat the hell out of it. A lockback have significant amount of strength in it, and when a good quality one breaks, I don't see how I'm going to be able to do that unless I intend to break it. Same goes for the Axis lock. I don't see how I would be able to break the Axis lock unless I truly intended to break it. My point is this, the Axis lock and the lockback have significant strength in it, so that under normal usage, their theoretical strength does not make them any better. The matter of having an Axis lock because it's stronger than a lockback is largely an academic one.
I was refering to your comments as ill-founded because I do not understand why you would say that lockback folders have a more than signifacnt of them with vertical blade play, and the fact that you wrote your whole comment that reads like a bashing piece to a lockback. If you want to say personal experience, then the vertical blade play issue remains a dichotomy; your experience says they're very prone to vertical blade play, while mine says nothing as such. I do not consider your original comments as
fair to lockbacks in general (not counting those crappy knockoffs on the streets).
Edited to fix stupid mistakes
