Lock "Safeties"

Is this thread about safties for auto/assisted knives, or secondary lock safties like the Lionsteel Rotolock or the CRKT LAWKS?
 
I don't like safeties, either to keep it open or keep it closed. A safety on an auto, to me, defeats the purpose. Ditto an assisted or flipper (assisted or un). I have nerve damage from a cut on my right index finger from an old CRKT heavy-ass zinc handled POS (Red Dawg or something?) linerlock that closed on me. This was early in the company's infancy, from the late '90's. This was before LAWKs. Not only do I not really trust CRKT anymore (although I'm sure they're better now), but I don't trust a knife that needs a secondary lock to ensure that it actually is locked.

Yes, I also carry slipjoints. I also treat locking folding knives with the realization that it's possible that the lock could fail.

BUT!

I still expect a locking knife to stay locked. If a task at hand would be better suited to a locking knife vs a slipjoint, I'll use the locking knife, and I'll expect it to stay locked, and I'll use it like a knife I expect to stay locked. Yes, that's a contradiction of sorts, but it's one we're all guilty of (unless you only use fixed blades).
 
I have one knife that has a lock safety, the Benchmade Barrage. I removed the safety. And the assist for opening. Both features were worthless for me.
 
I hate lock safeties of any type. I dont need the type that locks an assisted blade closed. I carry tip up front right pocket and the blade side rides against the end of the pocket, so they cant open anyway. Took them off my leeks. As far as those things that extra lock on top of the primary lock? I agree with the person who said just make a lock that is reliable in the first place. Even my hogue button lock doesn't need it IMO, but that one stays out the way unless you WANT to use it. That Auto lawks crap? Ruins the knife for me.
 
I normally don't care for safeties, even on most of my autos. However, for some activities I do use them (riding a helo to work or in the wheeled, armored can). Normal activities are not a concern, but a sudden jolt may add additional/unnecessary injuries; that's the only time I use them. There are some folder "safeties" when blades are deployed, such as the RAO or XIO heavy duty folders which use a cross-pin, but my biggest concern is that an additional safety for the locking mechanism opens the door to using the folder beyond its capabilities. While I don't necessarily care for safety mechanisms, the ones like the Ruike are easily ignored without being obtrusive or stupid looking (like the Leek). My Benchmade safeties on the Adamas and Emissary are done nicely and can go completely unnoticed.

ROCK6
 
I have found it a useful feature on both the Benchmade 583 and 581. Why? Because I have kids about the house; when they were younger I’d always engage the safety when leaving the knife out. The assist is fairly forceful, particularly to those who aren’t expecting it...

Otherwise, I never bother with the safety at all, but there is no correlation between the safety feature and paucity of lock in the case of Axis locks. It’s just there if you want it, and can also be removed.
 
Safeties that keep the lock open are completely unnecessary if the primary lock is done right like it should be. Crkt's autolawks is a joke. It's pure marketing or trying to make up for poorly made locks. I'm not sure which is worse. Either way, it was very annoying to use on the hissatsu I had (plus, the poorly designed assist was unusable and had to be removed).

Any modern folder other than a lock back I will carry clipped with the spine of the blade against the seem of my pants so it is extremely unlikely to open. This is especially true with benchmades because I feel one of the main flaws in the axis lock is an easily overcome detent.

So with that in mind I was happy when bm came out with the 665 APB assist. Not only is the lock very cool and innovative (ambidextrous push button actuated axis lock) it has a lock to keep it closed or open (though I'm not concerned about open). So with the assist removed I have a button operated axis lock that can be locked shut, removing my concern of the weak detent of the axis lock. I can confidently carry this knife not against a seem and carry it during rigorous activity, two things I really only deem safe doing with a lockback (strong detent).

Other types of safeties I see no reason for in the folders I carry.
 
My SOG Zoom-Mini has a lock to keep it closed. It’s on the top of the show scale, right above the pivot.

In spite of having many nicer knives, I still like this guy. It an assisted knife that fires HARD and is as close as I can come to an auto both in feel and for legal purposes. The lock falls right under my thumb, so it doesn’t really require a change in grip.

EF1B3B55-DDD6-450C-853B-B92A7FCDFDF1.jpeg

I never used to carry it locked but I usually do now, as it’s come open a few times unintentionally—though never during carry—one or twice while getting tossed around in a bag or when I throw my pants around with the knife still in pocket.

3151A6E2-3061-415B-84B8-8514F1B97223.jpeg
 
I only have safeties on three knives, IIRC. A Sog flash (I don't like that safety), a BM Boost, and a BM Amicus/Arcane. I never carry front pocket, as they are full with keys, fobs, etc. In a belt pouch/sheath, no problem, but often I carry the BM's in a back pocket next to my wallet. I always have the safties engaged.

IMO, with well designed safeties, the added step becomes almost unnoticable. The problem, is when I carry folders without safeties for awhile and then swap in my "safetied" knives, I forget to use the safety sometimes. If I carry my Boost or Amicus often enough, swiping the safety off becomes second nature. I definitely wouldn't trust a push button auto knife in my back pocket without a safety.
 
Not a fan of safeties. I had a Kershaw leek, Spyderco auto Citadel and both had blade safeties. I could understand the logic of having one on the Citadel, not the Leek.
 
Well after a bit of thought reading this thread, I decided you are all correct. Safety's are all bollocks and took the safety out of my Barrage, as well as the assist spring. Now I can use this thing and may actually start to carry it.
 
colin.p said:
Well after a bit of thought reading this thread, I decided you are all correct. Safety's are all bollocks and took the safety out of my Barrage, as well as the assist spring. Now I can use this thing and may actually start to carry it.
Click to expand...
As a matter of interest, why couldn’t you use it before? ;)
 
colin.p said:
Well after a bit of thought reading this thread, I decided you are all correct. Safety's are all bollocks and took the safety out of my Barrage, as well as the assist spring. Now I can use this thing and may actually start to carry it.
Click to expand...

I did it years ago to my 581. Absolutely love it! It's now probably my favorite carry production knife. There is absolutely ZERO need for a spring assist on an Axis lock Benchmade that uses thumbstuds. Flippers? Yeah, you kinda need it.
 
Not a fan of safeties, but don’t mind it on my Kershaw Leek. Small enough not to bug me and if I don’t want to use it, I don’t have to.
 
So far I own three knives with safeties and each comes with a different opinion.

The first safety I encountered was on the Onion Kershaws working my first job around 2004. Those little knives generated a lot of interest but everyone was afraid of them opening in pockets. We saved a lot of sales thanks to that little safety. Later I came to appreciate it further because my wife carries her Scallion loose in her purse and I like her hands the way they are thanks. I briefly carried a Leek but it just wasn't for me. Blade stock was too thin and I had to use the safety if I wanted it to ride low in the pocket because it was tip down that way and had nothing to keep the blade from springing.

Next came a CRKT M-21 with AutoLawks and veff serrations. It's AutoAwful. The knife has it's own issues, read veff serrations, but the safety subtracted a lot without adding much in return. I still have that knife somewhere. It is strictly a beater because I can't bring my self to pass that burden on to someone else.

Recently I lucked into a BM 581 Barrage. I am planning to lose the assist, because I don't need it and don't like them with thumb studs, but I'm keeping the safety. This knife is large enough in pocket that if I'm sitting around with friends I may drop it on the table with the pocket dump for more comfort. I don't have kids but some of them do and little kids have wandering hands. I also gave one to a buddy who rides a motorcycle. I feel a bit better knowing that if he lays his bike down there is that much less risk of his open knife pursuing him down the road.

So mixed feelings all around. In the end it comes down to the knife and circumstances.
 
In a hypothetical situation where I needed my folding knife lock to not fail and cause the knife to close for one use before essentially breaking; I could see the value of a Lionsteel Rotolock or Rike/Realsteel sliding secondary lock.

I just can’t really imagine said situation right now. I imagine in most situations where I would be hypothetically putting a folder through abusive damaging use (like batonning) it would be better to just do with the knife unlocked.
 
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