Lock Strength - Spyderco Paramilitary 2 vs Cold Steel Hold Out II

Danke42 · Jun 25, 2015

ichor said:
I, for one, get a kick out of the goofy stuff Lynn comes up with and someone is clearly buying it and....you, for one, don't have to buy it....and no skin off your nose. ;')

How can you tell what's goofy and what's serious? Is there a disclaimer in there somewhere?

I'd hate to find out my Ninja Stars were a party gag. It could cost me my life!

jstrange · Jun 25, 2015

Freman Bloodglaive said:
Or if you wanted a slim knife, or if you wanted a knife longer than 4 inches, or if you wanted something for less that $100. Cold Steel knives of comparable size tend to be lighter as well.

If you're comparing price ranges Cold Steel competes directly with Kershaw, not Zero Tolerance. Kershaw have a nice range of Chinese made knives, but their RRP is probably about twice what it ought to be. Cold Steel used to get flak for selling AUS8 knives for more than $50. Kershaw will sell you 8Cr14MoV for almost twice that. 8Cr is a good budget steel, and I like it in a Sanrenmu that I can buy for about $20. $90? Not so much.

Not trying to start an argument here, but what Chinese made Kershaw is selling for $90? I am not a huge Kershaw fan, but I have never considered them overpriced. The American made Blur, with superior steel, doesn't even sell for that much and the new 1776, which has at least as good as steel as the Chinese models, and is US made sells for less that $50.

Kels73 · Jun 25, 2015

I mostly agree with those who have said that a lock doesn't need to be that strong if the knife is used properly. I say "mostly" because I feel that there are certain scenarios where lock strength is critical. Self-defense is one example that comes to mind.

I know the use of a knife for self-defense is a controversial topic, but putting that aside for a moment, if an individual does have to use a folding knife in a violent encounter, a strong lock is important. Whether the blade collides with a jacket buckle when stabbing, or whether it is struck by a bat or baton, the lock needs to be strong enough to withstand extreme stress.

I know this won't be of concern to some knife users, but it's worth mentioning, because there are people on this forum who are self-defense conscious and carry a knife with the full realization that they might have to use it to defend themselves one day...God forbid.

Freman Bloodglaive · Jun 26, 2015

jstrange said:
Not trying to start an argument here, but what Chinese made Kershaw is selling for $90? I am not a huge Kershaw fan, but I have never considered them overpriced. The American made Blur, with superior steel, doesn't even sell for that much and the new 1776, which has at least as good as steel as the Chinese models, and is US made sells for less that $50.

Although it has been discontinued, the Dimension 3810 was made in 8Cr13MoV (indicating Chinese production) and had a manufacturer's RRP of $99.99. Now I'm sure the price you'd pay on the street would be much less, but it is what it is.

Stays Sharp · Jun 26, 2015

Freman Bloodglaive said:
Although it has been discontinued, the Dimension 3810 was made in 8Cr13MoV (indicating Chinese production) and had a manufacturer's RRP of $99.99. Now I'm sure the price you'd pay on the street would be much less, but it is what it is.

I really hate to sideswipe into a discussion but using MSRP prices against the playing field's actual market prices is completely apples to oranges. Looks like you know that by saying as much so there really is no point in using it as an argument. It just muds up a thread with confusing info.

Freman Bloodglaive · Jun 26, 2015

jstrange wanted an example of a Chinese made knife that Kershaw (not its dealers) were selling for $90. The Dimension was priced at that, although now it's OOP and on clearance you can get it for about $33. Cold Steel's MRRP for the clip point 4" Voyager in BD1 is $94.99. Likewise of course nobody will pay that much for it, I think it's running around $70 at the moment.

ichor · Jun 26, 2015

http://www.bladeops.com/Cold-Steel-X-Large-Voyager-Knife-CTS-BD1-Tanto-P-p/cs29txct.htm

Pretty damn good price even for a skinflint like myself.

jstrange · Jun 26, 2015

Freman Bloodglaive said:
jstrange wanted an example of a Chinese made knife that Kershaw (not its dealers) were selling for $90. The Dimension was priced at that, although now it's OOP and on clearance you can get it for about $33. Cold Steel's MRRP for the clip point 4" Voyager in BD1 is $94.99. Likewise of course nobody will pay that much for it, I think it's running around $70 at the moment.

I gotcha now. I really wasn't trying to start an argument, just curious. Thanks for the info.

The Mastiff · Jun 27, 2015

If you're comparing price ranges Cold Steel competes directly with Kershaw, not Zero Tolerance.

Cold steel also has high end products more in line with ZT . ZT products are US made, not Taiwan and Japan though, and have traditionally used better steel though Cold Steel is fast catching up. I have been really proud of CS....until lately with Lynn that is. His low ball actions and even lower explanation that he was doing it for us knife users talked me out of a couple purchases. Too bad really.

They are even coming out with a 52100 fixed blade knife. That's talking my language. No go because of Lynn again.I'm not supporting his actions or business because of them.

Zidfeldts · Jun 27, 2015

The Mastiff said:
Cold steel also has high end products more in line with ZT . ZT products are US made, not Taiwan and Japan though, and have traditionally used better steel though Cold Steel is fast catching up. I have been really proud of CS....until lately with Lynn that is. His low ball actions and even lower explanation that he was doing it for us knife users talked me out of a couple purchases. Too bad really.

They are even coming out with a 52100 fixed blade knife. That's talking my language. No go because of Lynn again.I'm not supporting his actions or business because of them.

I had almost pulled the trigger on a Code 4 with the upgraded steel. I decided to save my money and buy a Spyderco with the same steel. I spend about 300 a month on knives so I consider myself a customer worth cultivating. Oh well.

J85909266 · Jul 3, 2015

Insipid Moniker said:
I have tremendous respect for Mr. Glesser and I love the way he does business, but I absolutely will not applaud him for decisions like that. Refusing to release testing data that would educate consumers in order to protect competitors is simply bad for us as consumers. It means that we're forced to buy based on hearsay and anecdotal evidence. No disrespect intended, but I still feel he made the wrong call.

It depends. I wasn't bothered by the Tatanka vs Triad lock tests because the Tatanka was marketed as having a very strong lock. It was put to the test fair and square, and while it performed admirably, it did not match the Triad. Fair enough.

Now, a Paramilitary 2? There is no need for this test. The compression lock has been stated at testing stronger than a standard liner lock, as well as being less prone to slipping from the lock face, but it was never marketed at being a folding fixed blade. This test was in poor taste, and not a comparison worth making.

Now, I'm not saying that it's wrong, but I preferred Sal's graceful approach of stating that he had tested the locks against competitors, and that they had performed well and exceeded expectations.

Next we will see the Espada XL vs OPINEL NO13.

cistercian · Jul 3, 2015

J85909266 said:
It depends. I wasn't bothered by the Tatanka vs Triad lock tests because the Tatanka was marketed as having a very strong lock. It was put to the test fair and square, and while it performed admirably, it did not match the Triad. Fair enough.

Now, a Paramilitary 2? There is no need for this test. The compression lock has been stated at testing stronger than a standard liner lock, as well as being less prone to slipping from the lock face, but it was never marketed at being a folding fixed blade. This test was in poor taste, and not a comparison worth making.

Now, I'm not saying that it's wrong, but I preferred Sal's graceful approach of stating that he had tested the locks against competitors, and that they had performed well and exceeded expectations.

Next we will see the Espada XL vs OPINEL NO13.

I just picked up my Para 2 after reading your post.I still am amazed at it's liquid handing properties as well as it's cutting ability.It is EPIC as a EDC as well.
Sal and Eric did an outstanding job.It also remains the ONLY knife that was perfect out of the box.Centering, grind, action, sharpness all were excellent.

There is a reason they sell so well.

As a total package the Para 2 is truly EPIC grade.

I don't use mine for heavy use.That is what my Benchmade grips are for.

For in extremis use the 710 Benchmade or the Police 3 G10 Spyderco certainly fill the bill for me.

your point is well taken...marketing and sensationalism are points I readily grant to Cold Steel.

Sal is too class an act to stoop to this kind of behavior.And he designs and sells products I like......and spend my money on!