Lock Strength Test Request: Benchmade Adamas Vs Cold Steel ____________

Jonslaught

Jonslaught

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Jun 26, 2015
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As we wait for the release of the 4MAX and its possible showdown with the Extrema Ratio RAO, I think we here can use a morsel to chew on....

Besides, every Main Card needs a preliminary bout...

Presenting the challenger: Benchmade Adamas.

The Benchmade Adamas is said to possess the largest and strongest AXIS lock ever implemented. They say it can handle 800LBS of tension on the lock.

https://youtu.be/yd1bJYcr9u8?t=1m10s

I think this claim needs to be tested. For the AXIS, we've seen the Bedlam and the Contego, but I think those are lightweight pansies in comparison to this.

Adamas Specs taken from KC:

Blade Length: 3.82"
Blade Thickness: 0.160"
Handle Thickness: 0.730"
Blade Material: D2 Tool Steel
Blade Hardness: 60-62HRC
Blade Style: Drop-Point
Weight: 7.70oz.
Pocket Clip: Tip-Up, Reversible
Lock Mechanism: AXIS
Overall Length: 8.70"
Closed Length: 4.88"
Made in USA


Fun Fact: Adamas means "invincible" in the Greek tongue.


Who else would like to see this blade in a future CS showdown? Who else would like to see if lives up to its name?

Feel free to weigh in and suggest opponent CS blades in the comments below...
 
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In on 1...

I am for this..

Supposedly the 808 Loco has the same or close to the same Axis strength as the Adamas.

Thick liners, larger axis lock.
 
Medium G-10 Espada should compare relatively well VS Adamas. It has the thickest blade of all the sub 9-inches model. It also have similar length, even though it's much lighter and thinner. I think the partial steel liners along the 2 stop pin will provide more strength. The AK 47 should compare pretty well too, even though both models has thinner blade than the Adamas.
 
Count me in for being interested. The Adamas is almost undoubtedly the stronger overall knife when you consider blade strength, handle strength, and edge durability as it's much more a smasher/folding pry bar than comparable CS folders. That means that, in my mind at least, the lock is the only thing in question.
 
How's this for interested?

[video=youtube;6ZwwLWQk664]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZwwLWQk664[/video]

Though the tension goes to the middle of the handle in this video and CS hangs the weight off the end in their tests. Should this make a difference?
 
Jonslaught said:
How's this for interested?

[video=youtube;6ZwwLWQk664]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZwwLWQk664[/video]

Though the tension goes to the middle of the handle in this video and CS hangs the weight off the end in their tests. Should this make a difference?
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It wouldn't make a difference if they gave the effin measurements in inch pounds. *grumble grumble*
 
Oh i missed "inch" pounds, how does that translate to real pounds, or does it even? I ain no mathomatition.

I figured 1700 lbs had to be a mistake. Boof!
 
Jonslaught said:
Oh i missed "inch" pounds, how does that translate to real pounds, or does it even? I ain no mathomatition.

I figured 1700 lbs had to be a mistake. Boof!
Click to expand...

It doesn't, inch and foot pounds are measurements of torque, not weight.

Think about it this way. I could hugely multiply the weight a folder held just by hanging it 1/8 of an inch back from the pivot. That's because the longer the lever acting on the lock the less weight the lock is gonna hold. That's why what we want to measure is torque. How much actual force is required to break the lock. It's a number that always looks a lot less impressive, but it's a much, much more realistic measure of strength.
 
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An easy way to think of inch pounds, is like this.

Imagine putting 1700lbs of force one inch from the pivot/lock area. Conversely, think of putting 1lb of force 1700inches away from the fulcrum. Either way, its the same force being applied, which is what insipid moniker is really getting at. Torque is more useful for this type of comparison.

If you simply hang weights off the end of a handle, and one knife has a 4in handle, and the other has a 5in handle, the knife with the larger handle is having to deal with more force on the lock/pivot (25% more if my math skills are holding up :P).
 
ocnLogan said:
An easy way to think of inch pounds, is like this.

Imagine putting 1700lbs of force one inch from the pivot/lock area. Conversely, think of putting 1lb of force 1700inches away from the fulcrum. Either way, its the same force being applied, which is what insipid moniker is really getting at. Torque is more useful for this type of comparison.

If you simply hang weights off the end of a handle, and one knife has a 4in handle, and the other has a 5in handle, the knife with the larger handle is having to deal with more force on the lock/pivot (25% more if my math skills are holding up :P).
Click to expand...

Yup! Gotta compare apples to apples when it comes to tests like this, and measuring torque is how to do that (I think it would be 20% more on the 5 inch handle.)
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Yup! Gotta compare apples to apples when it comes to tests like this, and measuring torque is how to do that (I think it would be 20% more on the 5 inch handle.)
Click to expand...

I went back and forth with 25% and 20% :/. My maths are a bit rusty (and the 1am thing didn't help :p), but I "think" the answer is all relative to the one you're setting as the "viewpoint". Meaning, 5 is 25% more than 4, but 4 is only 20% smaller than 5.

*going to look it up to make sure I'm not spreading lies on the interwebz.

Ok, it appears my maths have not failed me quite yet. Soon though, its coming, the longer it is I'm out of school...
http://www.free-online-calculator-use.com/percentage-change-calculator.html

Oh, and the other thing to remember about torque and my examples above, is that it assumes an "invisible and weightless" method of applying the force. So, obviously if you attached a 1lb weight to something 1700 inches away, the weight of the thing supporting the 1lb at the end would be pretty substantial. Torque measurements ignore that as far as I know.

And finally, even though I've vocally "not cared" about lock strength videos, I think some maths can get us close to a guess for the Adamas based on the 1700 inch lbs number.

Feel free to correct me on this, but this makes sense in my head.

1700in lbs/ 12in == ~141ft lbs.

From the benchmade website I get a closed length of 4.88in on the adamas. To make math easy, we'll say the lanyard distance from the end + amount the pivot is inset in the handle == .88 in. This means we can assume the fulcrum where one would hang weight off of it would be 4in.

141ft lbs of force is exactly that... its the same as applying 141lbs of force 1 ft from the pivot. But the handle is only 4in long. This means we need to multiply the torque times the distance to get the "real weight" that the handle would hold. The example before was that 141lbs 1 foot from the pivot is the same as 1lb 141 feet from the pivot. This means the reverse is true, where 141lbs 1ft from the pivot is the same as 282 lbs 1/2 foot from the pivot.

4in == 1/3 of a foot.

141lbs * 3 = 423lbs (425lbs if you don't round the first number).

Anyway I have no idea if ~425lbs is impressive for a folder, but I think based on the math we can say that's probably pretty close to what you'd get if you did things the "Cold Steel" way.
 
The CS Voyager's blade snapped at 461 lbs from torsion, so yeah thats pretty good for CS' standards. Though thats interestling seeing as tho the Benchmade rep said it could take 800 lbs, if you refer to the video in my opening statement (sorry still in lawsuit mode :D).

The voyager has griv-ex scales lined with aluminum. The Benchmade has g10 slabs on thick steel liners. And the blade is much thicker to boot, so I dont think twisting would be a factor for the Adamas.
 
ocnLogan said:
I went back and forth with 25% and 20% :/. My maths are a bit rusty (and the 1am thing didn't help :p), but I "think" the answer is all relative to the one you're setting as the "viewpoint". Meaning, 5 is 25% more than 4, but 4 is only 20% smaller than 5.

*going to look it up to make sure I'm not spreading lies on the interwebz.

Ok, it appears my maths have not failed me quite yet. Soon though, its coming, the longer it is I'm out of school...
http://www.free-online-calculator-use.com/percentage-change-calculator.html

Oh, and the other thing to remember about torque and my examples above, is that it assumes an "invisible and weightless" method of applying the force. So, obviously if you attached a 1lb weight to something 1700 inches away, the weight of the thing supporting the 1lb at the end would be pretty substantial. Torque measurements ignore that as far as I know.

And finally, even though I've vocally "not cared" about lock strength videos, I think some maths can get us close to a guess for the Adamas based on the 1700 inch lbs number.

Feel free to correct me on this, but this makes sense in my head.

1700in lbs/ 12in == ~141ft lbs.

From the benchmade website I get a closed length of 4.88in on the adamas. To make math easy, we'll say the lanyard distance from the end + amount the pivot is inset in the handle == .88 in. This means we can assume the fulcrum where one would hang weight off of it would be 4in.

141ft lbs of force is exactly that... its the same as applying 141lbs of force 1 ft from the pivot. But the handle is only 4in long. This means we need to multiply the torque times the distance to get the "real weight" that the handle would hold. The example before was that 141lbs 1 foot from the pivot is the same as 1lb 141 feet from the pivot. This means the reverse is true, where 141lbs 1ft from the pivot is the same as 282 lbs 1/2 foot from the pivot.

4in == 1/3 of a foot.

141lbs * 3 = 423lbs (425lbs if you don't round the first number).

Anyway I have no idea if ~425lbs is impressive for a folder, but I think based on the math we can say that's probably pretty close to what you'd get if you did things the "Cold Steel" way.
Click to expand...

You're correct, apologies!

I agree. 4 inches from the pivot it should hold almost exactly 425 pounds if it can take 1700 inch pounds of torque. Of course I just divided 1700 by 4 to get that. ;)

But yeah, one of the advantages of giving us torque measurements is that you can easily figure out how much weight it can hold at any, arbitrary distance from the pivot with fairly straightforward math.
 
Jonslaught said:
The CS Voyager's blade snapped at 461 lbs from torsion, so yeah thats pretty good for CS' standards. Though thats interestling seeing as tho the Benchmade rep said it could take 800 lbs, if you refer to the video in my opening statement (sorry still in lawsuit mode :D).

The voyager has griv-ex scales lined with aluminum. The Benchmade has g10 slabs on thick steel liners. And the blade is much thicker to boot, so I dont think twisting would be a factor for the Adamas.
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Thanks for the numbers, since I clearly have no idea what is normal for a locking knife.

Oh, and it is worth mentioning that the test shown above doesn't go to absolute failure. It seems to go until a certain amount of deflection (roughly half an inch). So maybe Benchmade is quoting a "to failure" number or something like that.

I really have no idea, but that makes sense :).

Insipid Moniker said:
You're correct, apologies!

I agree. 4 inches from the pivot it should hold almost exactly 425 pounds if it can take 1700 inch pounds of torque. Of course I just divided 1700 by 4 to get that. ;)

But yeah, one of the advantages of giving us torque measurements is that you can easily figure out how much weight it can hold at any, arbitrary distance from the pivot with fairly straightforward math.
Click to expand...

No problem. You have no idea how many times I've second guessed myself on percentage differences :).

And man, of course I chose the hard way to do the math. It must be a mental block that prevents me from solving anything in a simple way.

And, I did go look at one lock strength video (the leek one I think?) and whats funny is that I heard the man in the video mention the failure point in inch pounds. So clearly someone inside CS is thinking about torque, but for some reason they're not releasing it in that way :confused:.

Anyway, sorry to keep derailing the thread :).
 
These numbers are not normal for a locking knife, but for a knife sporting the Tri-Ad Lock and this particular Axis Lock. These are somewhat unnecessarily strong locks. Far from normal.

I'm like that too, only I overthink certain things to the point of total confusion and the problem is left unsolved.

As the OP, I deem this all relevant to the topic. In fact, you guys help, I have no head for numbers like this. I didn't even see the word "inch", I posted the vid thinking it was 1700 lbs rofl. I'm glad I wasn't right then the Triad would not stand a chance. The actual number 425 puts it comparable to the only CS knife we ever seen fail in their tests. I want a new contender, obviously. Medium Espada's 6oz to the Adamas' 7.7oz might be perfect. CS likes to be a little behind in weight to increase the boast.
 
Jonslaught said:
These numbers are not normal for a locking knife, but for a knife sporting the Tri-Ad Lock and this particular Axis Lock. These are somewhat unnecessarily strong locks. Far from normal.

I'm like that too, only I overthink certain things to the point of total confusion and the problem is left unsolved.

As the OP, I deem this all relevant to the topic. In fact, you guys help, I have no head for numbers like this. I didn't even see the word "inch", I posted the vid thinking it was 1700 lbs rofl. I'm glad I wasn't right then the Triad would not stand a chance. The actual number 425 puts it comparable to the only CS knife we ever seen fail in their tests. I want a new contender, obviously. Medium Espada's 6oz to the Adamas' 7.7oz might be perfect. CS likes to be a little behind in weight to increase the boast.
Click to expand...

Just keep in mind, the 425 is accurate for 4" from the pivot, but it changes if they pick a different distance. If they decide to drill it 3" from the pivot now you're looking at around 566 pounds (and some change).
 
As far as spine thickness, the Rajah III would probably be the closest production CS Folder to the Adamas

But the CS is giving up nearly 3 ounces in weight. Although, there is not a doubt in my mind that the Rajah III will come out on top in the testing.
 
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