Lock Strength - ZT0301 vs AK-47

Cold Steel Knives

Cold Steel Knives

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Following the surprising results of our tests with the ZT0350, fans asked us to test the heavyweight ZT0301.

How will the heavy ZT0301 fare against the much lighter Cold Steel AK-47 equipped with the Tri-Ad lock?

Watch this video to find out!

LINK
 
Great vid. Awesome. Most frame locks have WAAAY too much material removed at the relief. Keep it up.
 
Sweet, I love these videos. I own both knives so I'm interested to how it turns out. Watching now 👍

Maybe you guys could test a knife against the Code 4 in the future? It'd be nice to see how the aluminum handles hold up.
 
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I'm thinking code 4 vs Spyderco Paramilitary 2 or the Titanium Military.

The titanium military bears a similar overall look, but i don't think I'm speaking for myself when i say I'd like to see how the Spyderco compression lock does against the tri-ad lock.
 
Those are different knives altogether. The locks are different, but that's about it...

Blade steel is different... one's made in S30V the other is AUS-8 IIRC....

One's made in USA the other Taiwan IIRC...

One of them is assisted opening, the other is not.

Sure, one's a "Triad Lock" and the other a Frame Lock, but we all know that one lock design does not equal another lock design...

How will it fare? Lockwise, or otherwise? Sure, the lock will be stronger... but will the overall design be a "stronger" selling point?

I'm not going to predict results... but I'm interested.

I suspect that at a knife show, with both booths side-by-side, we might find out. But we're not trying to find the stronger selling point here, right?
 
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Velitrius said:
Those are different knives altogether. The locks are different, but that's about it...

Blade steel is different... one's made in S30V the other is AUS-8 IIRC....

One's made in USA the other Taiwan IIRC...

One of them is assisted opening, the other is not.

Sure, one's a "Triad Lock" and the other a Frame Lock, but we all know that one lock design does not equal another lock design...

How will it fare? Lockwise, or otherwise? Sure, the lock will be stronger... but will the overall design be a "stronger" selling point?

I'm not going to predict results... but I'm interested.

I suspect that at a knife show, with both booths side-by-side, we might find out. But we're not trying to find the stronger selling point here, right?
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I dont see the point you are trying to make TBH, so im just laying out some of my points here:

- The AK-47 is the 2015 version with CTS XHP not AUS8A. You can easily tell from the coating, if you own 2015 DLC coated version of CS folders.

- Sure knife is different & lock is different, that's the point for the test isn't it? Otherwise we would be testing AK47 vs AK47 no?

- ZT030X is assisted, ok, it may has an edge in term of deployment speed for some people. BUT, it wouldn't be fair not to mention AK47 has "thumbstud" opening feature right?

- ZT = made in US, CS = made in TW. Ok, but i believe bladeforums is an international community so we probably should be less ethnocentric here right? Also, is there a factual correlation with the place of manufacturing and the build quality of the knife? Has anyone done any regression analysis on this? How does Spyderco's TW made knives compared to Seki/Golden manufactured knives? Although i would argue that my recent experience with the fit & finish of CS 2015 models is not that great, mainly the bad blade grinds. But that's only my opinion, and i cannot automatically state that TW manufacturing sucks, since there could be other factors, such as potentially bad QC from CS part for not rejecting the bad apples, which can happen anywhere even in the US, right?

- "How will it fare? Lockwise, or otherwise?" --> So this is where the subject is more of opinions than facts. Does the ZT030X have better ergonomic than AK47? Is ZT030X more comfortable, slimmer, lighter & easier to carry? Is the design more utilitarian? Which knife is better for EDC/utility? Which one is better for self-defense? Which one cuts better? There seems to be common opinions floating around the forums that that CS only cares about lock design and nothing else, and other knife companies focus on all aspects of the design, not just lock. Hopefully it's not being implied here?

- "stronger selling point" is totally subjective. These tests only serve the purpose of testing 2 variable: shock resistance & load bearing capacity of the lock. Of course other related ratio too such as lock strength/weight, lock strength/price, and other "efficiency" related factors. Nothing else was implied. If it's a selling point for you, great, if it's not a selling point, then the entire argument is moot. I don't get why there is such a big pissing contest online over this subject. If lock strength is not a "selling point" for somebody, why bother arguing with those who care? People can simply move on and create another thread to talk about how smooth the blade flies off the handle or how great the ball bearing is, or how many pieces of cardbox a particular steel can cut, no?

Of course you can tell that im biased towards CS, but the facts are hard to argue here. Anyone can draw their own conclusion(more like inference) about anything else.
 
Cold Steel definitely has the best lock out there. I wish they would make some knives that have less of a mall ninja look to them. The American Lawman with a grey or green or brown G10 handle and no blade coating would be a nice start.
 
David Lowry said:
Great vid. Awesome. Most frame locks have WAAAY too much material removed at the relief. Keep it up.
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I wish soooooooo much that companies would stop this practice. In my opinion it's purely to appease the arm-chair-flipper-aficionados, and negates any claims of "hard-use".
 
Not really. If you have been around long enough and paid attention you would know that the holy grail of folding knives is a lock strong enough to allow true replacement of a fixed blade. Such a lock would be safer (ask those missing fingers and who have been cut badly from a failing lock). Locks fail, sometimes from the most surprising ways and times. Testing is the only way to prove anything. Without it, we would still be living in caves. Testing locks is a good, scientific way to test strength and utility.
 
hkyew, you make good points as well. (Congrats on the 100th post, BTW) MY point was that there are other aspects to consider.

I'm assuming that Cold Steel wants me to buy their knife. I'm assuming that they are showing me this video comparison in an effort to get me to choose the Cold Steel over the ZT.

I'm glad their lock is tough. But I'm comparing the knife and all of its features when I'm making my choice between these two.

When I'm wearing my Polar Penguin gloves, I find the flipper to be easier to open one handed than the thumb stud. When I start cutting silt fencing at 8AM, I want to know that I can still slice at 5PM... and I know that S30V is up to the task. These are aspects of the knife that I am 100% positive are going to come into play today. On the other hand, I'm 100% positive that I'm not going to apply 500 pounds of negative pressure to the blade today. You mentioned that the new version is made of CTS XHP... Now THAT, my friend, is a selling point to this knife that interests me! But nobody's touting that point to me as much as they're showing me how much more weight the lock will hold.

I'm not being ethnocentric about the place of manufacture, it's simply that I like to support American manufacturers when I can. "Made in the USA", like it or not, is a selling point. You'll see it touted as a positive aspect of a product all the time here on the forums and elsewhere. Matter of fact: If Cold Steel makes 2 identical versions of a knife, one made in the USA and one someplace else, I'll pick the USA made one. I'll still choose it if it's $10 more. Not because of fit & finish or because I think "Taiwan Sucks"... simply because supporting American manufacturers appeals to me.

The original post asked the question: "How will the heavy ZT0301 fare against the much lighter Cold Steel AK-47 equipped with the Tri-Ad lock?" Well, if we are only going to compare the lock, then I'm sure it will fare just fine. But I'll bet that CS is interested in how it will fare in the marketplace. And if I'm the one choosing between the 2 knives at the store (I am, BTW) the lock comparison doesn't matter as much as other features.

You stated: "There seems to be common opinions floating around the forums that that CS only cares about lock design and nothing else,"... that's a common opinion because that's the most common comparison we are seeing lately. In fact, if we see a thread titled "Cold Steel Recon VS Spyderco Military", we know we are going to see a bunch of weights piled onto the locks of two knives. Myself, I use other features of a knife way more than the lock. One of the best Cold Steel knives I ever had was a lockback, the strength of which did not concern me in the least.

There is no "big pissing contest online over this subject" message here. Just pointing out the differences in the knife that may matter more to folks when they make their decision between a couple of knives.
 
Velitrius,

What you said definitely makes a lot of sense. It's great that we had a nice objective discussions here, unlike the other thread i read over at the general discussion forums.

I'm a strong believer that healthy competition will help improve the industry as a whole. CS's video does a lot of good to other company too at least IMO. For example, i didn't know that BM's Axis lock could hold up so well vs triad lock. I'm also surprised that ZT0301's frame can actually hold ~225+ pounds! I always thought they would fail at 150lb point. In fact, i'm going to buy a ZT knife this week(can't decide between 0801, 0562 or 0560) and has been waiting for the video to confirm that ZT's framelock still has quite adequate strength.

I think CS has been working hard on adding value in other features on their knives as well, evidently their 2015 lineup with CTS XHP/BD1 steel for their folder and CPM3V/VG1/D2 for their fixed blade lineup. They have also implemented some innovative design such as new thumbstud operated triad-lock on their new folding karambit knife, as well as the first ever assisted opening triad lock knife the swift. None of this would have happened if they only focus on the lock strength. As mentioned by Andrew Demko, they could have added ultra beefy steel liners, use a 6mm thick blade and make the blade tang so deep that you have to depress the lock bar for 1/2 inch before the blade is released to ensure ultimate strength. But i don't think that's their goal.

Every company has their own key differentiating factors. To me these are the differentiating factors for the following companies: flipper & KVT bearing for Kershaw/ZT, Spydie hole for Spyderco, Axis lock for Benchmade, wave for Emerson etc. CS is no different, and we all know it's the Triad lock. When you have a unique feature, nothing wrong to market it hard. It's the problem with general public to perceive Triad lock as the only feature CS is ever good at...

Anyways, sorry if i sounded rather harsh, didn't mean to criticize. The "pissing contest" i mentioned referred to the "Cold Steel vs Zero Tolerance" thread over at the general discussions, and of course, being a CS fan, it doesn't feel good to be called "mall ninja" or blind Lynn Thompson cult follower. Im also ZT fan and i've owned 3 ZT0350 believe it or not(still has 2 currently). :cool:

All good...
 
Nah, hkyew, I didn't think you were harsh at all, I was just affirming that I wasn't trying to start a mirror of the thread you mentioned. All good is right, and I dig the objective stuff.

You are absolutely correct that CS is doing great things with their lineup, and I am going to partake of the new selections with gusto. I like what I see, I like the improvements... I'm just saying I'd love to see more of the improvements than just how their lock stacks up against somebody else's. I get your point that it's a big feature and they want everybody to see it in action. I feel that their mission of showing us how good it is has probably been completed.

But I'll keep watching. :)
 
That was a very impressive test. I'm also glad that the ZT didn't fold as easily as the 350 did in earlier testing. It's certainly not as strong as Cold Steel's knife, but it's not a chump either.

Maybe I need another AK-47.
 
 
Freman Bloodglaive said:
Framelocks need that material removed otherwise the beam doesn't bend.
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Nah, it'd bend, just not as well. Personally, I'm not saying take away the cutout completely. I'm saying that if you're using titanium for the lock side and you make a cutout that leaves the same amount or less material than the liner of steel liner lock, then by the qualities of titanium vs steel the titanium frame lock will be weaker.
 
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