Lockbacks may be classified as switchblades!!!!

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uncle

uncle

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I just did a little digging on Lexus and discovered that an appellete court in Texas held that a knife that can be opened into a locked position by holding the handle and flicking it open falls under the definition of a switchblade knife. I've seen a LOT of lockbacks that will do that, escpecially ones where the blade is held in by a screw that is loose.
The police around here have better things to do than hassle people about switchblade knives unless there is something else you're up to that you shouldn't be. I've been looking at switchblades at gun shows here and had officers walk by, observe the switchblades in operation and just walk on by.
When will the government stop discriminating against us because of the knives we choose to love? :-)
 
In California the code explicitly classifies lockbacks that can be flicked open as switchblades. I've seen enforcement of this be pretty lax. On the other hand, I believe that ambitious DA's have tried to rule Buck 110's as switchblades. It takes one hell of a good flip to swing a 110 open!
 
Welcome to the forums uncle.
This is a topic that's haunted us for quite a while. Do a search and see how many threads ran on it. Right now I'm going to try to put it out of my mind so it doesn't get me all pissed off again :-)
 
I found knife laws to be ludicrous even when I wasn't a knife knut.

The whole underlying bias against certain knives revolves more around it's image, rather than lethality. It has to do with stereotypical 50's greaser carrying a switchblade.

I find fixed blade hunters, or even a kitchen knife to be potentially as dangerous, or more, than a switchblade or balisong. In fact, I came across a recent episode of COPS, where a drug dealer had a concealed 9 inch kitchen utility knife; not a 3.5 inch folder!

Politicians never show any common sense, and they constantly try to treat symptoms rather than problems.

[This message has been edited by Full Tang Clan (edited 02-27-2001).]
 
I agree totally with Full Tang Clan. A baseball bat is a considerabley more effective weapon than most folding knives, but they're not outlawed. Same with kitchen knives, or lots of other things. Pretty much anything can be used as a weapon, what makes the object a weapon is the intent of the person wielding it. Unfortunately the concept of personal responsibility is no longer PC. People now believe that objects can exert insidious mind control over everyday folks, so we must outlaw these objects to prevent crime. And why not? Disarming the public has done a bang-up job of reducing crime in the UK and Australia.
rolleyes.gif
 
Roadrunner, just so no one thinks your seriuos about the outlawing of guns and knives reducing crime in Australia, Since then violent crime has skyrocketed. Yet the liberals cling to their dream- our nightmare.

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Fortunately, Jeff Clark is wrong about California.

Under Penal Code 653k, if a folder lacks springs and was designed to be manually opened with a "thumbstud, thumb hole, disk or other device attached to the blade" it cannot be declared a switchblade no matter how easily it opens. This change was effective 1/1/97 when a bad bust was made and a cop grabbed a folder's blade in court, swung the grip down and had a judge declare it a "switchblade".

The ruling was junked in appeals, and the legislature took specific steps to make sure it didn't happen again.

I don't know about Texas.

Jim
 
As far as I know here in Texas its still hanging out there. In these gentele times of feminized politics the majority of voters(and by the way, the proper word is sex, not gender), those of the more attractive sex, are looking for someone to take care of them. That means that few polititians are going to be willing to stick there necks out and do anything that might be interpreted by panty waists of either sex as "menacing".
 
I sure am glad that the knife laws in Alberta have very few restrictions. The maximum legal length of a folder blade is 6", and you can carry just about any fixed blade you want as long as it is in the open.
We are not allowed to carry autos, balisongs, push daggers or things like belt buckle knives or any other disguised knife or sword. About the only one of those that bothers me is the balisong.
Any folder with a loose pivot can be opened very easily and that would mean that under the pending Texas law any folder might be considered a switchblade. That sounds really stupid to me, and I can see why people get very angry about this type of legislation.

Keith.

[This message has been edited by Keith Montgomery (edited 02-28-2001).]
 
Keith, it's not pending legislation, it's the way the courts are interpreting existing law. It's a flaw (well the whole switchblade law is a flaw) in the wording that sucks those lockbacks in.
Now I'll have to say that as much as I love my knives, and even more, my freedom, I'd rather have Texas' knife restrictions than Canada's gun restrictions. You watch, after their done with guns they'll come after you're knives.
 
Doesn't texas allow fixed blade carry if under 5 1/2"?? Who needs a folder when ya can carry a FB.
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Blades
 
Jim: Unfortunately your anaysis of California law is not correct. If a lockback has a one handed opener but can be opened by a flick of the wrist it violates 653k This is an exception to the law that allows one handed openers. If someone loosens the pivot screw so thel can " sling " the blade open, it makes it illegal.
 
Fortunately for all of us in this admittedly screwed-up state Bladelaw, you're wrong.

Here's the key part of PC653k that matters in all this:

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.."Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that is designed to open with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade...
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Now, as my good friend and attorney Peter Mancus explained when describing something similar to me, "does not" as used above is what's called in legal circles a "bright line". It leaves little open to "interpretation" - if the knife is "designed" to be opened with thumb pressure, then is "does not" equal a felony. (Admittedly, he wasn't talking about this particular law but the construction of the "bright line" he was talking about was more or less identical.)

The word "designed" is important too. It leaves open the possibility that a knife will wear into an "easy swinger", or that a screw will loosen. Doesn't matter. In point of fact, a screw loosening up in my pocket should NOT turn me into a felon without my knowledge and that's exactly how 653k is crafted.

A group of DAs contacted Buck knives and complained about some of the results of PC653k. They weren't pleased that gangbanger kids were being allowed to slide on carrying easy-opening cheap Asian folders - these DAs were clearly interpreting PC653k the SAME way I am above. A letter to this effect was published by CJ Buck months ago on the Politics forum.

Jim
 
Jim: I make my living deciding questions like this. Once the knife is altered or ajusted so that it doesn't need the opener to open it, it violates 653k and is not protected by the exemption in 12020 0f the penal code. I also teach knife carry laws, and with all due respect, you're going to gI know you mean wellet people in trouble. I don,t mean to fight with you, but I think you have received some bad advice.I know you mean well, so no hard feelings.
 
Sorry the last part of the post got garbled. Iknow you mean well but I think you have received bad advice and people could get in trouble following it. Be well.
 
IF they could prove deliberate intent to alter it, you might have a point. But a basic point in law is that there has to be intent to commit a crime...normal wear, or a screw loosening up on it's own, doesn't override the way this law is crafted. The word "designed" plus the "does not" works to our favor.

I'm not the only one saying so...the California DA's association came to the same conclusion, which led them to start talking about tightening up the law itself. Nothing has come of that yet and it'll be a hard sell.

Jim
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Roadrunner, just so no one thinks your seriuos about the outlawing of guns and knives reducing crime in Australia, Since then violent crime has skyrocketed.</font>
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Uncle, that's a pretty sweeping statement and I'm sure you would like it to be true to support your argument, however it is not supported by the facts. If you check the crime statistics for my state (NSW) you will see that in fact this is gross misrepresentation of the true picture. Over the past 2 years there have been no changes in the rates of murder, assault and "robbery without a weapon", "robbery with a firearm" has decreased by 24.3% and "robbery with a weapon other than a firearm" has decreased by 19.8%. This last category is particularly interesting as it includes knives and the three previous 2 year periods had shown increases of 27.8%, 76.8% and 29.7% respectively. Since the restrictive knife legislation has only come into effect in the past 2 years, it could be argued (but not by me) that the knife laws are actually having the desired effect. However I think you would agree that this is hardly a picture of rampant violent crime.

When comparing our crime rates with other countries, one needs to consider is that this is one of the most urbanised countries in the world. When this factor is taken into account our crime rates are actually lower that similar countries such as U.S.A., the Netherlands and Canada.

This is not to suggest that I support all aspects of our gun laws and I should point out that I observe the knife laws by ignoring them
smile.gif
. However I do object to having my country misrepresented in a public forum just to win an argument.

Be happy,

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Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow....in Australia it's tomorrow already.

[This message has been edited by Clay Kesting (edited 03-02-2001).]
 
Lock blades may be classified as switchblades, day may be classified as night; and if the truth is inconvenient, it will be classified as a lie. Makes a man proud to live in the land of the free.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">and if the truth is inconvenient, it will be classified as a lie.</font>
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X39, I do hope that statement is not directed at my post. If it is, it says little for your capacity for sensible and reasoned debate. I too am proud to live in a democracy but equally I am proud to live in a country where my personal safety has never been threatened and I have never felt compelled to travel armed. And just in case you missed my point, I was not arguing in favour of repressive gun and knife laws, I was merely disputing the spurious arguments used to disparage them.

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Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow....in Australia it's tomorrow already.
 
Is it just possible that some people are oversimplifying the existing legal definitions throughout the back and forth bantering?

It really doesn't matter whether you have a civil law degree from Harvard or know a lawyer since a lawyer can argue a case from any particular point of view to try to convince the court. It is up to the judicial system to decide whether or not it stands. The only person who can say for sure about a particular legal subsection, applicable to a particular case, is the particular judge interpreting said legal definition.

In other words, one of the frailties of our judicial system (I don't think it is the "best system we have") is that it is open to interpretation, which differs amongst people -- including those in the justice system -- and amongst the various nuances for a particular case or situation.


[This message has been edited by Full Tang Clan (edited 03-03-2001).]
 
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