Locked Sebenza Thread

D

donovan

Joined
Oct 4, 1998
Messages
1,100
Spark,

Besides probably posting to the wrong forum I'm curious as to what rules Jackyl was violating in offering discounted Sebenzas through his Grandparents dealership. I know that the chances of that happening were extremely remote, but I don't see where he was as out of line as you suggested. Not bitchin', just curious.

Jack
 
For one thing, you don't come out (here) and tell people that you'll sell them "any knife" at 30% under retail prices, as it 1. Screws over the dealers, and 2. Pisses off the manufacturers. For another, yes, it was in the wrong forum and goes against our "Commercials" policy.

What you do off the forums is your own business, but the forums aren't here to submarine/screw over any segment of the population: not the knife users, dealers, or manufacturers.

I don't think Jackyls intention was to screw the dealers over, I believe he wanted to help the other members out. Unfortunately, saying "Hey, I'll sell anyone out there a CR Sebenza for $240" is a sure way to do serious harm to all of the CR dealers out there.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Please see my " I'm Sorry. :*( " thread. Sorry Spark. -AR

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- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.

 
P.S. The 30% wasn't just for the Sebenza. In the "For Sale / Trade" forum, I posted that all of their knives are under 30% below retail because that's the way they have come to do it at gun / knife shows all over the contry to stay competitive. Sorry for the confusion. -AR

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- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.

 
Just for clarification, Spark, Discount Knives says on their site that they will sell REKAT knives at 35% off MSRP. Would Brian not be allowed to post that (hopefully) on the Dealers Sale Forum? And, since Jackyl's Grandparents are dealers don't they have the right to sell knives at whatever margin they desire (even on the Forums)? I'm not trying to be argumenative, there must be something I'm missing though.

Jack
 
I'd just leave it alone man. Not worth it. It would be interesting though, If I had the money, to buy about 25 'Benza's at full price, and sold them to "buddies" for about $50 hahaha J/K. -AR
smile.gif


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- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.

 
Hey, I appreciate the effort, even if it does not pan out. I know there was no malicious intent here. A learning lesson...
 
Thanks man. -AR

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- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.

 
Jackyl, sorry buddy, I had no idea that when I asked about CRK and the deal you offered that it would lead to this. I know you did not intend any harm, I was just wondering aloud just how far you could get the deal to go.

I thought the "for sale" forum was a good place for the post, maybe putting it out here in the "general" forum was the mistake. Thanks for the effort, it is appreciated.

There is a time and place for everything, I suppose.

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James
 
Quote from my post above:
What you do off the forums is your own business, but the forums aren't here to submarine/screw over any segment of the population: not the knife users, dealers, or manufacturers.
Click to expand...

Dealers are discouraged from posting "I'll sell any knive at X% off from retail" on this site, though specific prices and sales on particular models are a problem.

The crux of the problem with this thread was the fact that it was in the wrong forum, and "racing to the bottom" is not a practice we want to encourage here, even with the best of intentions, as it does more harm than good in the long run.

Anyhow, if Jackyl wants to become a dealer and offer these kinds of prices on his own website, we aren't going to try to stop him (see above), but we just don't approve of "All knives x% off all the time!" as a selling tactic here.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
I was talking to a knife dealer at a knife show who had a collection of custom knives for sale from most of my knife idols including just about all the Chris Reeve product line. It was a collection most people must see. I asked him how he was able to sell his custom knives, didn't that put him in competition with the makers? He (and all others that sell knives by custom makers) enter into a non-compete contract with each maker. They buy a minimum of say 20 knives from the maker to get a discount but are then not allowed to sell the knife at a price less than what the makers themselves sell them for. In the example of the Sebenza, he cannot sell them for less than $325. By buying a custom knife, like the Sebenza, at a show, you're saving yourself the cost of shipping. If the Reeve's found out he were selling for less than the agreed upon price they would "cut him off" as he would be violating their agreement. IMO, this deal Jackyl had proposed could never have happened.

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Bill
"There's nothing friendlier than a wet dog"
"The more people I meet the more I like my dogs"
 
Just my 3 cents worth, I don't think there was any harm meant on this topic and I understand that these forums are sponsored by dealers and such, so lets just put it to rest and forget about it for now! He meant NO harm!

God knows I have posted in wrong spots here, too, right Spark?
wink.gif


Mark



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" Knife Collectors Are Sharp People! "
Click to expand...


 
Thanks for the good intentions Jackyl. I appreciate that.

Sometime we just step in it. Cleaning it up sure uses up a lot of bandwidth!
wink.gif


[This message has been edited by Bob Irons (edited 03 June 1999).]
 
Competition breeds profit.
Excess Competition kills profit.

I dont think Jackyls post would hurt any C.R. dealers out there, as i dont think it would actually come to fruition, or at least on a consistent basis.
I do think it could make some C/R dealers a little nervous.

Spark- i think posts like this or okay, as long as they are on the correct forum.

 
The reason I posted in the "General" forum, is because I wanted to know what you all thought about a Sebenza at our selling price, and to find out if the interest is there. I also wanted to know retail price so I'd know how much I could offer them for. I am now not interested in selling any custom knife through BladeForums since their overhead is too low. I'm sure they will get their Sebenzas either from CR Knives, or another distributor, so I know I'll have one soon. You know, first thing's first, right? They have been selling for over 15 - 20 years and haven't had any trouble yet, so I don't want to be the cause of their misfortune. I'm sure they will sell just as easy at the gun / knife shows. Thanks for all the feedback. Sorry for the trouble. -AR

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- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.

 
I don't think they would even agree to sell them at retail to tell the truth. They aren't out to rip any one off, they are retired and do it as a hobby. Their profit on many knives is only $15 or so on a $100 knife, not including the cost of tables, shipping handling, and travel expense. If they do find a distributor, then it's cool, if they are forced to sell them at retail, then they will nore than likly turn it down. Thanks. -AR

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- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.

 
I'm late for work, so this probably isn't as well thought out as it should be, but I wanted to get it into the Forum flow to see where it goes. IMO, the administrators of BF should not have as policy the encouraging, discouraging or any other part in the setting of prices by other Forumites, private or professional. The knife buying public will punish or reward those people as they see fit. It has clearly been shown in the Discount Knives-type threads that being cheapest does not guarantee you customer loyalty. It is a market niche that deserves to exist until it proves unworkable, however. The market will shake things out in the end.

This is not meant to bash anyone, I'm just talking philosophy here. I love the Forums and spend an inordinate amount of time here and try to support it's members. But, for whatever reasons this sounds like bad policy.

Sorry to keep this going, Jackyl, but it's not about you. Stop apologizing, you didn't do anything wrong.
smile.gif


Jack
 
Please keep in mind a few things. There are vastly different margins (i.e. potential profit) in certain brands. When was the last time somebody advertised Dozier knives below retail. Yes, it has probably happened somewhere (maybe even at a gun show) but, how often? Now consider why Wal-mart carries the brands they do in the sporting goods section.

Most dealers are not out to scalp people, essentially stealing their money. They invest their time, effort and, money in finding quality products at a fair price. Also, when you go to Wal-mart or a Gun Show, how many of them will discuss your needs - why this steel is better then that one for your intended use - why this knife pattern over that one ...... It is a free marketplace and, you the consumer are free to spend your money anywhere you want but, please realize that most dealers are not getting rich by artifically inflating prices beyond their true worth.

I too would like to see the knives the quality of the Sebenza priced like a Buck, or Benchmade, or Spyderco but, as discussed in another thread dealing with a similar topic you just can't do it. There are many companies out there that would seize the Sebenza market if they could put that level of quality in at a lower price. So far I haven't seen it and, yes I aware of the Benchmade competition.

Sid
 
We do not have a policy of telling dealers what they can sell here and at what price. The only policy we have is where they can post it.

There are no commercial posts allowed in any forum other than the "Knife Exchange".

Now if a member asks a specific question about a knife, including prices in another forum, the other members are allowed to say to the effect: I saw it at XYZ dealer for X amount. The dealer is not allowed to respond in the thread unless they are specifically mentioned.

We have not had a problem with this so far so no big deal.

Also I will talk to Spark about the above posts. We will not and can not enforce a manufacturers pricing policy here or anywhere. I can tell them as a distributor if they are my dealer (in private) but I must seperate the forum from my business. I am not the price police.

Also you can not post anything in your message on items for sale that says you will beat anyones prices here. You can do that on your site or tell them via email or phone but not here.

So in a nut shell...

You can post any product you wish and sell it for any price you wish as long as it is on the right forum.

I agree with Spark that I would frown on anyone who sells stuff below what the manufacturers stated pricing policy is but I can not control that in this venue and will not attempt to here either. I got enough stuff to do
smile.gif


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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com




 
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