Logo Etching Problems

S

Steve Beckwith

Joined
May 29, 2004
Messages
393
I am probably doing something wrong but here goes. I built an AC/CD 12v etcher off plans on this forum. I bought some stencils from Ernie. I have used table salt and distilled water for my etching liquid. I am doing three-2 second passes with Dc and one- 2 second pass with AC. I wait 5 sec. between passes. The problem I am having is that I am noticeably damaging the stencils with only one use. I practiced several times today and finally went for it on a blade that I have been working on for hours and the etch was really muddy. Not acceptable at all. I think that I can sand the damage out of the steel but I am running out of stencils and at $56 for 12 stencils this is getting rather expensive. I wouldn't mind wasting the stencils if I was learning anything but I can't figure out what I am doing wrong. I have communicated with Ernie and he told me that I am using the wrong etching liquid but I have read on this forum where others are successful with the salt/distilled water mix. So here are some questions...Am I using the wrong etching liquid? Is the etcher I built too hot? Is my timing wrong? I am a little disappointed at this point and could sure use some feed back. Thanks in advance, Steve B
 
It sounds like you have too much voltage and a bit too long of a hold time. On the one I built, I etch at 8 volts and only hold for a second and then pull off for a couple of seconds. Add a simple home dimmer switch to the incoming power to the transformer and you can lower the current to whatever works for you. The muddy look is blowout and normally caused from getting things too hot.
I use salt water with no problems.
 
My process with a 16VAC xfmr and a self built etcher:

Use commercial electrolyte with Ernie's stencils
Clean the blade
Tape the stencil so it does not move
I use a lot of electrolyte; more seems to work better for me than less.
I do 9-10 5-7 second applications of DC and then switch to AC and do the same.

This is what I get:

 
How big is your stencil? I hate how they only fit 12 to a sheet. I cut mine to about 1/4" x 1/2" and put scotch tape around it. A little tracing with a razor blade and it holds the stencil very tightly to the blade. I could fit a couple hundred that size on the stencil sheet and wouldn't mind if they got ruined.

On second thought, what are you using for a pad? Paper core q-tips work well.
 
I don't think that your voltage is too hot. I use a "Personalyser plus" etching tool that is rated at 24 volts max. It has a variable knob that I turn to about 2/3rds power which I guess is about 16 volts and I etch for about 4 seconds and then mark with AC power for about 4 seconds. I started getting really good etches when I started using IMG number 94 solution ( stainless steel and some carbon steels) . IMG is located in Utica , New York. I use both stencils from TUS in Massachusetts and the green stencils from the company in Brea , California whose name I can't remember this minute. If you want to change stencils then you will have to pay the setup fee again so I would advise using your current stencils but try a commercial solution like IMG. I have tried many different products but this solution is best for the stainless steel I like to grind. Just my opinion and maybe it will help you. Larry Lehman
 
I'm with Larry. I run 18-20Volts with no problems.

I'm betting you are using WAY too much electrolyte....and it is getting under the stencil. The felt pad should be blotted to almost dry. If you lift the pad and the stencil or surrounding area looks wet, you have too much liquid on the pad.

Also, a bottle of commercial electrolyte costs less than $10 and will last ten years.
 
By Bladesmith's description I am in fact using too much electrolyte. I did reduce the voltage as recommended by Theiskill and completely ruined to unrecognizable a new stencil in 2 etches using 3 passes at about 2 seconds each DC and one pass with AC. I am going to order some stencils from Electromark. I am not rippin' on Ernie but I want to rule out faulty stencils as well. After all, it's ONLY money. I'm also going to order some commercial electrolyte. By the way, I am using a synthetic felt from the upholstery shop next to mine. Ernie said not to use qtips. The stencils came 4 to a sheet, approx. 3" X 6" sheet size. David Sharp, from the way my etching experience, if I followed your method time wise, I believe I might have the stencil burst into flames. Not really. Thanks to all who offer advice. Steve B
 
I squirt the area with windex first and pat down the stencil firmly.

I use Q-Tips and Zalph etcher and it works fine.

The windex first really helps get a clean etch.

I will be going to a pad, but the Q-tips works fine.

Oh and ditch the salt water. A good etchant makes all the difference
 
glassguy said:
By Bladesmith's description I am in fact using too much electrolyte. I did reduce the voltage as recommended by Theiskill and completely ruined to unrecognizable a new stencil in 2 etches using 3 passes at about 2 seconds each DC and one pass with AC. I am going to order some stencils from Electromark. I am not rippin' on Ernie but I want to rule out faulty stencils as well. After all, it's ONLY money. I'm also going to order some commercial electrolyte. By the way, I am using a synthetic felt from the upholstery shop next to mine. Ernie said not to use qtips. The stencils came 4 to a sheet, approx. 3" X 6" sheet size. David Sharp, from the way my etching experience, if I followed your method time wise, I believe I might have the stencil burst into flames. Not really. Thanks to all who offer advice. Steve B
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear you are still having problems. Since my last advice didn’t do anything but cost you a stencil I hesitate to say anything else.LOL If you want to “test” your method use electrical tape and just cut out a square or anything and use that to test what you are doing. For me, if I hear it sizzle, I have held it too long. It takes me about 15 to 20 quick (a second or less) dabs for lack of a better word to get a deep etch. Then I go back with the AC and darken, usually about 10 “dabs” to blacken. I got the method from a video the guy from $nody knives did on etching. I basically follow his directions to a T and it has worked for me. If you need it I will try to find the video and send you a link. I hope you get this worked out.
 
A stencil here, a stencil there...the problem I have is a little frustrating but in the overall scheme of things it's no big deal. I haven't done any damage to my finished blade that can't be repaired with a little elbow grease. I will order up some commercially made etchant. I have watched a number of YouTube videos and it looks so simple. It is possible that I am using too heavy a concentration of salt. Or the stencils just can't take it. After one etch they are visibly degraded, the second etch renders them an unrecognizable smudge.

I was a glass blower for 14 years. I taught myself. I was a genius. I was an idiot. I ran a furnace 9 months a year. I melted somewhere north of 40,000 pounds of glass in those years. I understand the frustration of failed equipment and product. Sometimes you have to look at things from a distance. It is forecast to be an 80 degree sunny day here so I am going to take the bike for a spin and view this problem from about 100 miles away. Thanks again to all who have responded, Steve Beckwith
 
Check your voltage. Me thinks you are probably way too hot. Some transformers have multi-output taps. 12V or 24V.

I have used Ernie's stencils in the past (Only for special one-of stencils). They work well, however, I wouldn't expect a lot of longevity from them. IMG-Electromark is what I use for my name (logo), and they work great and last quite a while.

I also bought a quart of their # 94 electrolyte back in 2004. I still have 2/3 of the quart left. That has etched probably over 400 blades.

Robert
 
Maybe he has the transformer wired backwards, and he is getting 1200V :)

Seriously, I would put a voltmeter on the leads and tell us what the voltage is.

I etch on the DC setting at 12-24 volts for anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute and a half to get a clean and deep etch. Stencils last a long time, and blurring is minimal or non-existent.
The AC setting is just to darken the etch by electro-plating some of the metal removed ( and now in the pad) back onto the mark as dark oxides.


I sometimes find that a Q-tip wipe with FC after the etch, followed by clean up and then light sanding with very fine grit paper makes a very dark mark.
Black background lacquer ( also called antiquing lacquer) is also good to make a deep etch stand out. Put it on and let it dry. Wipe the excess off with a paper towel and a small amount of solvent, or just sand it off with fine paper.
 
Q-tips must be paper core to work properly. The paper soaks up the electrolyte and conducts fine. Plastic core won't conduct and will be useless. Good tip about q-tip and FeCl. Have to remember that one.
 
I originally was using a tested 12V dc but yesterday I turned it down to 8V as suggested earlier in this thread. Same results with both voltages, I fried the stencil. I have been using Morton idolized table salt in distilled water, dissolving as much salt in the water as it will take and keeping the pad wet.. I get visible bubbling around the pad after a couple of seconds. I have done one fairly successful etch on a different blade but that stencil did not survive the second use. As I have said earlier, I'm going for some commercial electrolyte and different stencils

Fellhoelter, I just watched your video (again). Dang. Whose stencil is that?
 
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glassguy said:
I originally was using a tested 12V dc but yesterday I turned it down to 8V as suggested earlier in this thread. Same results with both voltages, I fried the stencil.

I have been using Morton idolized table salt in distilled water, dissolving as much salt in the water as it will take and keeping the pad wet..

I get visible bubbling around the pad after a couple of seconds.

I have done one fairly successful etch on a different blade but that stencil did not survive the second use. As I have said earlier, I'm going for some commercial electrolyte and different stencils

Fellhoelter, I just watched your video (again). Dang. Whose stencil is that?
Click to expand...


That could be part of the problem.


The solutions are much more dilute than that

A very high salt concentration may be conducting much more current than normal solutions.
 
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Stencils and electrolyte from TUS Tech

EX-9B is my favorite.

Don't be cheap, get only a few stencils per sheet.

Extra room around the stencil is WAY better than tape.

Nowadays, I just use my laser...
 
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