Long walks vs heavy equipment - axes etc

O

OmegaA

Joined
Feb 13, 2004
Messages
282
It might be a bit provocative topic, but I would like you to join the discussion if axes/hatchets/machetes are really required for people who travel…
While I am very interested in axes, hatchets and other heavy good quality tools, I find one thing quite frequently - they are usually not really an essential item because:
1. you travel into wilderness, but for a short time, so you can avoid doing heavy work if necessary;
2. you travel into wilderness in a group, so local guides have some axe/hatchet/machete if necessary;
3. you stay in remote areas, but still with some people around, so again someone will have it if it is required;
4. restriction on flight luggage weight make you leave heavy equipment at home;
5. because of weight, if you get lost suddenly, there is a good chance you will leave your heavy equipment in a camp, you won’t carry it with yourself.
Also, when you travel at your home country, you often travel on vehicles into wilderness, so weight is not an issue, therefore there is no much weight advantage of a hatchet over an axe. Also, because you cannot leave your car unattended, you stay near to it, so you can have almost anything close to you.
So, it seems to me heavy equipment is more an equipment to create a comfortable living outdoors than an emergency survival tool. I read a few books that promote ultralight backpacking and do not remember anybody mentioning an axe or machete as good choice even though they cover survival skills.
If it is the case, is the axe/hatchet a survival tool? Is it not better to concentrate more attention on how to use knives for heavy work since you have higher chance to use a knife for heavy work than an axe/hatchet/machete in case of emergency?
Thanks.
 
Whether its a luxury or necessity depends on where you are and what season it is. A recurring theme in your reasons to not carry an axe is that someone else will have one, what if everyone depends on that?
 
in the summer I'm quite happy going into the bush with just a belt knife... for 2-3 day clips... in the winter without an axe however I'd be a popsicle
 
Sketchbag gave the right answer: it depends.

For the majority of the time and majority of places an axe isn't necessary. In northern climates, especially in winter, I'd say you're a fool if you don't bring one.

Hatchets/kukris/machetes, IMO are better to have than have not. What if you need emergency shelter or a decent size fire right now? It's much faster with one of those tools. What if someone gets hurt? Using one of those, you can fashion a litter a lot faster than with a knife.

In another thread I mention that while in the Scouts while going out on two-week camps, the troop only had 2 axes and 2 shovels among us, but everyone carried a hatchet and a knife. Look to the "old timers" in the camping world. They often harped on going light, and moaned about people carrying too much weight and sharpened prybars for knives, but considered a hatchet essential. In fact, most of the old time woodsmen that I've read consider the hatchet or a 3/4 axe their most important tool even above the knife in usefulness. You can do knife jobs with the bigger tools, but not vice-versa (don't mistake me for saying it's as easy to do with the larger tool, just that it CAN be done).

I can wholeheartedly see not bringing an axe or full size buck saw with you on a hike or camping trip (unless you're going for weeks at a time where the ability to get a lot of work done offsets the weight). But I think you're barking up the wrong tree trying to cut weight by eliminating a hatchet or kukri. I'm not singling the OP out for this, but going to the extreme of calling a machete too heavy is bordering on the assinine. It's one of the lightest blades out there, can be batoned to split wood if necessary and can get you through just about anything but a northern winter well enough. And it doesn't have to be a $180 Barktario, the cheap-arsed surplus store machete will do just fine.

Maybe I'm paranoid, or overprepared, but how many people have to call a SAR team, or die because something they thought extremely unlikely happened? I dunno, I'm tired, my meds are kicking in. Maybe I'll come to my senses in the morning, but it isn't looking good. :D
 
I've done a lot of long-distance hiking, and I agree with 'Riley. Not really a need for a hatchet or machete unless you're heading out for an extended period in colder weather. I always have one if I'm car camping, because I know a fire is in the offing. But I won't carry much more than a Vic Outrider and a Becker necker or Mora 911 if I'm backpacking. If you follow the Leave No Trace guidelines, you shouldn't really be using something like that a whole lot, unless it's a survival situation.
 
I think that assuming that someone else will have an axe, etc can prove to be a fatal mistake. I always pack what I think I might need when I am in the woods. I carry a hatchet, machete, FB, folder, SAK, and usually a folding saw. I also carry a few more knives if I plan on playing with a few and/or testing. I consider most of what I carry to be necessity. I would hate to be out in the woods with a handful of people who all assumed someone else would pack whatever necessary gear.
 
i , personally, am fairly proficient at doing most things with an axe or hatchet. so , for me, it might make more sense to pack a small hatchet rather than a belt knife if weight were an issue. so it depends what equiptment you are comfortable with.
 
I always carry three things: a multitool, something to cut wood with, and a fixed blade knife. I have a graduated response to this issue, depending on how light or heavy I am traveling, and the level of severity of the conditions I might encounter.....

Light and fast, either on foot or on a dirt bike: Original (light little) Leatherman tool, Gerber saw (extremely light!), and Fallkniven F1.

Traveling a bit heavier, either on foot or on the ATV: Original Leatherman Tool, Gerber Sport Axe, and Fallkniven F1.

Traveling even heavier, on the ATV: Leatherman Super Tool, Gerber Camp Axe, Falkniven S1.

Truck travel or on the ATV in extreme conditions: Leatherman Super Tool, Gerber Axe, Falkniven A1.

I see the multitool and the axe as being the most important items! I see the knife as nothing more than a backup....a knife will do things the multitool can do, and some things the axe can do....but it doesn't do either of them very well. There is this facination out there with "survival knives", but I just don't get it......
 
My gransfors small forest axe is extremely light. I dont go out with out it. Given enough time I can clear my entire state with it ;) . It is awesome IMHO.
 
I always carry either my M-43 Kukri or an axe with me when I venture into the backcountry. Usualy the M-43 kukri. This gives me the capability to manufacture or improvise emergency rafts, structures, etc without even half the work otherwise needed with just a knife. Another problem is the occasional need to build a large fire when there are sudden weather changes, try feeding one of those with just a knife.
 
Dont usually carry an axe till theres the possibility of mountain snow showers. The GB Hunters axe offers a lot a capability in a fairly light package. Till then, the axe's weight stays out of my pack. -I will carry a light weight saw for emergency or hunting use though. - -
 
There's a lot of rather weird assumptions in the first post. Before I say anything about them, though, I'll state the obvious like I always do: no, axes and such are almost never a necessity, but then again, extremely few things are. In most climates, it's down to clothes, food and drink, and that's it.

As for the weird assumptions, I find it extremely unwise to expect other people to have gear to lend to you. Where you're going there might not be other people. I don't take local guides in the first place, if it can be avoided, so I couldn't rely on their tools. Restrictions on flight luggage won't make me or any sensible person anything at home that they want to take. And if there's no way to ship the items properly, one can always buy them in the destination country. Only a very unreasonable person leaves their heavy equipment in 'camp' if they get lost. If you're actually lost, then that is the time you might actually come to need the heavy equipment - most likely you're not going to need them when you're not lost and all is going as planned.

Axes most certainly are a survival tool, and a very useful one at that. For actual work, I will much rather use an axe than a cumbersome big knife. Knives simply aren't up to axe tasks, no matter how large they are. The power just isn't there.

The ultralight school in general is not someone who you should take survival advice from, just like you shouldn't take self-defense advice from people who advocate no carry of weapons of any kind.

With that said, there's nothing wrong with leaving home with minimal gear. I do it, and even recommend that others do it in relatively safe environments, to practice doing things without so much tools to aid them. But that doesn't mean that the heavy equipment isn't very useful in a survival scenario, because it can be. Necessary, though, very few things are, and not even a knife typically falls into the range of what is necessary.
 
I am more of a folding saw / pocket chainsaw guy but I can see the limitations of saws. Not being able to drop big trees and not being able to split wood at all. I can split wood with my F1 but a 4" blade has its limitations. I guess that if your sorroundings call for a lot of work with thicker than wrist sized wood and a lot of splitting (wet wood) a hatchet might be the way to go. Where I hike a folding saw and a 4" stout blade is enough.

Mikel
 
;)
I like hatchets so I carry one. I drive and then hike with it all on my back.

Usually when I go backpacking I try to go as light as possible so we always set down and try to avoid duplications on our gear. 1 hatchet, 1 stove and water filter, as many cooking pots as we need for the people.

However when you go above 4 people and have an ambitious schedule as far as # of miles you sometimes need 2 stoves or water filters, although if you have a nice fire a number of people can cook on it at once. That's where the hatchet comes in;)
 
This is an interesting topic, due to the fact that I always backpack ultralight but ruin it with a machete. I get chastized by other backpackers on the trail every once in a while. Coming from one spectrum yet gradually being absorbed into my machete-nut ways, I can elaborate a little bit.

Simply put, most people don't pack these items in because they don't know how to use 'em well. Or they haven't used them enough to balance the weight for the need. There is ALOT you can do with an axe or a machete, not just make firewood. I'm talking camp cooking gadgets, stools, benches, shelters even. Now, of course, there isn't a dier need for them. I used to be a hardcore mile munching backpacker, I guess I still am to an effect, but it can be fun, yet a drag because people are so up tight in backpacking that they never stop and realize they are outside. Most of those kids barely even bring a knife.

Many times, I would say about 8 trips now that I have lead, I have brought some of those hard core mile crunchers and granola kids out and showed them how to use a machete or a small hatchet. It was like they had never really been camping up until that point. I used to carry a brunton optimus stove, then I went to the MSR pocket rocket (love that stove), then it went to a pepsi can stove. Now, when I think about it, I hardly carry any stove. There is a balance for everyone, comfort levels, and skill levels. Needed or not, I'm probably still going to carry my 12" machete around anyway. My mission: bring the camp knife back to camping!


Even when going only 5 pounds for 3 days, some of that is machete weight

DSC03343.jpg
 
Last edited:
One issue for me on the ATV's, is that trees frequently fall and block the trail. In that case, you better have a full size axe, and some friends along to help with the chore......
 
reconranger said:
One issue for me on the ATV's, is that trees frequently fall and block the trail. In that case, you better have a full size axe, and some friends along to help with the chore......
Click to expand...

If you are driving an ATV you can bring pretty much whatever you want within reason.
 
hollowdweller said:
If you are driving an ATV you can bring pretty much whatever you want within reason.
Click to expand...

Not me....I try to keep the "light and fast" hiker attitude, even when going motorized off-road. So much so, that I absolutely refuse to ride the current crop of inherently unstable ridiculous 700+ pound long travel IRS mush boxes that seem to be so popular out there.

My little Rancher 420 rips....and none of my friends on their expensive top of the line big bores can go anywhere that I can't.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top