Look Sharp, Feel Sharp and Be Sharp!!

Great reading.
Charlie Sir please don’t let me stray off topic.
Stropping - most of know the ins and outs of what not to do and what to do........ but......
Yes I regularly strop to try and maintain that sharp edge- rather than resharpen.

I made my own strop board out of a good solid bit of wood and glued part of one of my old weight belts to it.
After what would end up being hundreds of hours later - I think I am only half way there- because I am by myself here as a knife user / collector- so cannot sit down with others and be taught one on one - you tubing goes so far.

I find holding the knife as lightly as possible- getting that angle right- and I listen to the Blade running on the Leather.
Played with- ( unsuccessfully ) pastes so I strop dry and lightly.
If I am not careful I can blunten an edge while stropping- so always it has my full attention, do my fellow knife mates here find the same?

Hello Duncan,

First and foremost, as you've likely discovered, there are many, many answers when asking questions around sharpening. Some are in direct contrast of one another, other's are just different approaches, some matter more than others, and many are just opinions.

So, if I may sir, I'll toss some of mine into the mix for your consideration.

As said, regardless of the type, style, or grit of an edge, the steel will largely dictate the edge retention duration. Then the media the blade is used to cut will have a significant impact.

"Shaving sharp" is a term that gets used a lot but that doesn't always mean the same thing. For me, a knife is sharp if it can shave forearm hair. It's really sharp if it can easily shave leg hair. It's really, really sharp if it can easily slice through receipt paper across the grain and make curls while doing so. Just my personal quantifiers.

It is my experience that most knives, be they basic low-alloy steels or S90V, will lose those varying degrees rather quickly. I have a knife in BD1 which is considered by many to be a garbage steel or at best, okay (I love the stuff) and I have the exact same knife in S90V which is widely praised as having amazing edge retention. My experience says that given the same general daily EDC use, I can't tell the difference in losing that shaving sharpness. But I do think the S90V will keep going longer than the BD1 in just general cutting ability. The thing is, I'll typically strop, hone or re-sharpen before either get that far so it doesn't matter to me.

I am not into de-stressing edges or microbevels and I don't get overly concerned about matching angles to steels and tasks. I generally freehand sharpen and it seems most of my knives end up around 15 degrees per side and they all work fine. I have a couple kitchen knives I'm intentionally going lower on but still, it's just not that big of a deal to me.

Many people are against stropping and it can be a deep subject with many staunch opinions all around but I strop. I strop for two reasons: 1) At the end of sharpening to ensure any remaining burr is removed (trying to get better about doing this on the stone to see if I notice a difference) and 2) for between sharpening touch ups.

Bare stropping, be it on leather, denim, cardboard, or wood is going to have minimal effect and only on softer alloys. The common green bar compound (CrO) is very good for these alloys as you are both straightening the edge through stropping but also getting a slight sharpening effect from the abrasive. That said, I personally think many people have issues because they make too many strokes when stropping. A lot of us think of the old barber whisking a straight razor back and forth along a leather strip. In 1 above, I only make maybe two passes per side, very light and and at a lower angle than I sharpened. In 2 above, I don't do much more than that. If a few strokes per side won't get the blade back where I want it, then it needs a stone, hopefully a high grit will do it.

I also think many folks feel their blade is sharp off the stone and then when they strop feel the blade dulled and blame their stropping skills. While there may be some room for improvement there, it is also quite possible that they had a burr still on the blade coming off the stone. This will feel and act very sharp, but then when stropped, the burr will be removed, revealing the true apex and if it isn't precise, then the edge will feel duller after stropping. The goal is do things well enough on the stone that the stropping doesn't show any real difference. Post-sharpening stropping, in my opinion, should just be a precaution check type thing. Unless of course you want to use stropping as an intentional edge enhancement process which is another discussion altogether.

Sharpening is all about angle. Yes, we need to match sharpening media to different steels and there are a lot of nuances and details but the most important thing is angle. Use a marker to mark the edge bevel and let that guide your sharpening. If the ink is only coming off shoulder of the edge, you're too low. Only off the very edge, you're too high. Work until the ink is gone (sometimes there may be factory grinds that leave tough spots and require multiple sessions) and you have a burr, then flip sides and repeat, Then light strokes side-by-side-by-side, etc.

Don't get flustered and know that you will make mistakes and you will learn and improve. I've been at it for 40 years or so and am still learning and still screw up and still sometimes need to walk away. But when you start getting it right more often than not, it is very rewarding.

I know this was very long and I hope it wasn't too boring. :)
 
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I use the 4 rod as well and havent tried this book test yet, but I can never shave hair :(. How are you getting a book slicer from the rods? Are you microbeveling?

Micro-beveling doesn't enhance the sharpness. The idea behind it is to enhance the edge's durability and ease of touch ups.
 
Campbellclanman Campbellclanman
Duncan, I have always used "green" bar compound for stropping, but sometimes I seem to get no improvement. As I said before, I am only a fair-to-middlin' sharpener, but I have picked up some amazing tips here. Thanks to all who are contributing here.
I am so glad I started this thread!!:)
 
Campbellclanman Campbellclanman
Duncan, I have always used "green" bar compound for stropping, but sometimes I seem to get no improvement. As I said before, I am only a fair-to-middlin' sharpener, but I have picked up some amazing tips here. Thanks to all who are contributing here.
I am so glad I started this thread!!:)

The Maintenance, Tinkering, and Embellishment sub-forum here is a great resource with very knowledgeable and generous people. It's an awesome place to research but also to ask questions. :)
 
I stand the blade straight up (spine up) and make one continuous stroke (as in slicing) from the tang of the blade edge to the tip of the blade being careful not to let the tip of the blade slip off the rod. Just follow the instructions.
 
I used to think a fine stone is where your shaving edge comes from and spent a lot of frustrating time with no results trying to achieve that. Eventually I learned that how sharp you get the edge on a coarse stone is the most critical part if you want it to be really good, especially if you are progressing to a high grit. You can get a shaving edge on coarse stones, I've done it as low as 70 grit and you could go even lower.
 
I used to think a fine stone is where your shaving edge comes from and spent a lot of frustrating time with no results trying to achieve that. Eventually I learned that how sharp you get the edge on a coarse stone is the most critical part if you want it to be really good, especially if you are progressing to a high grit. You can get a shaving edge on coarse stones, I've done it as low as 70 grit and you could go even lower.

I think this is very common. Higher grits just refine an already sharp edge. But I think a lot of folks jump up in grits before they should, believing the finer grit will bring up the edge.

Stan Wilson is a living legend and he sharpens his kitchen knives on a 220 grit belt sander!
 
I used to think a fine stone is where your shaving edge comes from and spent a lot of frustrating time with no results trying to achieve that. Eventually I learned that how sharp you get the edge on a coarse stone is the most critical part if you want it to be really good, especially if you are progressing to a high grit. You can get a shaving edge on coarse stones, I've done it as low as 70 grit and you could go even lower.

I agree, I think a lot of people stop too soon on the lower grit stones, probably patience isn't a virtue for them ;) and they rush to the finer stones only to not really get it sharp.

Another thing to do is to run the edge down the tip of your finger nail, for those with finger nails that is! What that brings to light are those areas that still have parts of the edge not fully meeting together. It's a subtle thing sometimes to be able to feel that, and you do this very very lightly with just the weight of the knife against the nail and of course be careful not to spring a leak !
G2
 
I agree, I think a lot of people stop too soon on the lower grit stones, probably patience isn't a virtue for them ;) and they rush to the finer stones only to not really get it sharp.

Another thing to do is to run the edge down the tip of your finger nail, for those with finger nails that is! What that brings to light are those areas that still have parts of the edge not fully meeting together. It's a subtle thing sometimes to be able to feel that, and you do this very very lightly with just the weight of the knife against the nail and of course be careful not to spring a leak !
G2
:eek: Could you clarify that recommendation a little, Gary??:rolleyes:


Oh, and don't forget to pay the premium on your liability insurance!!!:D
 
Tilting your thumb down so just the very tip of your thumb nail presents itself to the edge of the knife, start at the bottom of the edge and 'carefully' draw the knife down along the edge of your thumb nail.

If there are any inconsistencies of the edge, one side of the bevel coarser than the other, it will give feedback as you draw it along your nail.

G2
 
Fantastic input everyone, Charlie I too am very glad you started this Thread!

To all the people who have taken the time to put down in words their techniques and knowledge- it is immensely appreciated, Eli - certainly not long but informative and interesting to compare yours and others who have come in to help me and other readers compare our sharpening habits to what is being offered here.
Many Thanks.
 
The first thing in learning to sharpen is to forget the term “shaving sharp it has such a broad definition to so many people that it has become completely meaningless. Both 320 and 3000 grits will shave hair, if you've apexed the edge correctly.

A consistent angle is critical to a good edge. That is impossible freehand because no matter how good of a freehand sharpener you are, you will vary a tiny bit. Holding that angle is especially hard when you are learning to freehand but you can cheat. I learned years ago if you cut a cheater block so you can set and double check on the angle you are holding. Lay the blade on the block and presto you got your angle.
Learn the feel of your wrist position and use the same grip on the handle every time.
In time you'll gain the muscle memory and be able to tell by feel and sound but until then, Cheating is good. I don't free hand as much as I used to so I cheat when I do.


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The Apex of the edge is just as important, it's that very peak where both sides come together.
Sharpen each side until you have raised a burr across the entire length of the edge. Run your fingernail down the side of the blade to the edge and you'll feel the burr. If you don't raise a burr it will take longer with the next finer grit or you will leave behind an unsharpened area.

Don't use to much pressure on the stone. Get a comfortable, steady grip on the handle and keep the pressure light. To much pressure will just make it difficult to maintain the angle and you won't get the knife sharp.

There are a lot of ways to deburr an edge, most people use a strop to break off the burr. If you don't have a strop, no problem.
Use the final stone, when you finish flip the knife and do a forward slice on the stone about 3/8” long.
No farther or you'll raise another burr. Flip the blade and repeat. I find it helps to deburr after each stone before moving to the next finer grit.

Grits and angles. On a thin edges slipjoints I've discovered that 20 degrees per side and 320 grit is a very durable and sharp edge. Learn that angle and grit then if you want you can get fancy later.

When you are done slice a piece of paper. If you notice the edge catches in the same place, use a marker to identify the spot and look at it under a 10x loupe. You'll be able to see your mistake and know where you need to improve.
 
Great thread guys, with multi bladed knives I keep one blade extremely sharp mostly for whittling, but for main blade and general carry I’ve found that for my needs in everyday use I prefer an edge sharpened with a coarse stone 300-400 grit with a few pases on a super fine to finish deburring, this gets a kind of coarse-polished combo that shaves hair and slices phone book paper whilst keeping a grabbing quality much nicer than a completely polished edge.

The other suuuuuper important point for me at least is regrind the primary bevel every 15 sharpenings or so, roughly when the bevels reach around 1mm(1/32”) tall is time to grind down the faces. With this little trick (150 grit sandpaper on a flat surface) you achieve 2 main advantages:
- the edge glides through the materials because the wedge effect is drastically reduced
- sharpening time is cut down by 3 or 4 because the amount of metal to be removed decreases in proportion

828664A4-9129-4736-A986-025487CD9301-1859-00000325FF358709.jpg

This edge needs to be reground
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My father’s chestnut bone peanut decently sharp.
My peanut just reground. A laser in just 3 passes per side on the coarse DMT and 6 per side on a superfine Arkansas stone

Hope it helps someone ;)
Mateo
 
I keep all of the knives I carry sharp all the time. Most knives get reprofiled on a Sharpmaker at time of purchase, starting with diamond hones.

Touch-ups are usually done freeehand, on a variety of stones. Easy to sharpen steels get done on an India stone, and then an Arkansas combination bench stone. My old homemade leather strop is used last, treated with BRKT green compound. Being honest, I can strop a knife pretty often, without the need to to use the stones.

Tougher steels see a Crystalon bench stone, and then a finer diamond hone or two, and maybe a Spyderco bench stone if I want a polished edge.

Some of my whittling blades have very thin convex edges. I don't use stones on them at all. Very fine grit wet/dry paper does the trick, and occasional stropping to touch up the edge. When using the wet/dry paper, I lay it flat on top of my strop.

I'm an oil kind of guy. I like to use oil on all of my stones. I've tried water and I've tried Simple Green, but ultimately prefer the feedback I get from oil. Coarser grit stones get baby oil. Finer grit stones see Norton honing oil.
 
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