Looking for a maker to grind 7 straight razor blades

ZDP-189? isn't that one of the extrememly high carbon steels that William Henry? is using for kitchen knives? I heard that one eats belts about as fast as you can change them :)
 
It's a 3 layer laminated steel. The inside layer is a Hitachi high hardening, fine grain carbon steel sandwiched between 2 outer layers of high carbon stainless (ATS-34). I have some of the stuff but haven't made any knives from it yet. I doubt it will be very hard to grind, at least not compared to S90V which DOES indeed eat belts for breakfast. Rockstead in Japan makes knives from ZDP-189.
 
ZDP-189 is a proprietary Hitachi steel that can be hardened to an extreme state.It is sold as a mono steel or as a san mai between ATS-34 sides. Several cutlery companies use it.William Henry for expensive kitchen cutlery in a san mai with damascus sides,and Spyderco for some high end folder blades.It was being Heat Treated only by Hitachi,but now Paul Bos does it,I hear.
I still don't think anything will make a better razor than 1095.
Stacy
 
Tom Krein said:
This is a very interesting thread! Look forward to seeing what you end up with!
Tom
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:foot: ADVANCE APOLOGY FOR THE LONG ASS POST:foot:

Actually the thread has become proportionately less enjoyable the more I learn. I guess I must have come at this with the wrong way of asking the question or something because it seems like at every turn I was just getting chewed on. I'm actually a little surprised this didn't generate better activity since it regards something uncommon in the knife making circles that would have created a challenge for people to mess with.

Ironwolf if you could would you post pics of your razor? What you describe is commonly referred to as a Wedge because of its lack of a hollow grind. While a very servicable razor grind it has the one disadvantage of being more difficult to hone than a hollow ground razor because of the increased amount of material that must be removed to return the edge to the proper angle. Historically they were preferred by professional barbers because of their toughness and because the extra material had the advantage of helping the razor STAY sharp longer. The trade off was more work honing for a tougher more durable tool, which considering their use of them, was pretty smart.

Most HOME users preferred hollow grinds because they require less work to maintain but as you can imagine over time the edge would be ground closer and closer to the spine because of the thin nature of the metal, while the thick spine would see a much drastic change from the honing process. These razors could later be re-ground by thinning out the spine in order to salvage the proper blade width to spine thickness ratio.

In all actuality there are three basic razor grinds, the most common of which is the full hollow which runs from a thick spine gradually to a thin edge reaching the full thin-ness of the edge at about halfway between spine and edge. This was accomplished with compound grinders that are now going the way of the dinosaur. I understand even DOVO is having trouble due to the fact that they only have a single machine to work with.

The second most common is the wedge which is simply a flat ground zero bevel blade like IronWolf described. And the third is 1/2 hollow (1/4 hollow whatever you want to use) a combination of the two where a wedge is constructed and then hollow ground between edge and spine on both sides creating large fuller-like grooves in the blade. These have some advantages and disadvantages of both of the other grinds. Because the hollow doesn't extend to the edge you are left with a wider strip of material at the edge to hone requiring more material to be removed (disadvantage of wedge) but the added material make for a tougher razor (advantage of wedge). On the other hand the hollow section removes some of the material that would have to be removed during the honing process (hollow advantage) but like the hollow leaves the overall blade thinner than a wedge making it more delicate than an ACTUAL wedge (hollow disadvantage)

Currently I'm signed up for a passaround on my razor forum by a maker there who is using the half hollow grind and is donating a blade to a passaround (let's not go off on a tangent about sanitation please we're all adults and we can clean the thing when we get it to make sure nothing else gets passed) in order to get feedback on the design handling and construction from the community so that he can start putting out razors himself. I've already spoken with him about doing this I'm just waiting for the passaround to try his razor and let him get a final idea of what it's going to entail and get me a price to go off of. I'd still love it if some of you guys want to take a crack at this as there is a distinct lack of razor makers out there and the more options there are the better.

I'm as excited as you are too see what I come up with (I may go mirrored 1095 for the set and just have a single dammy made cause I love damascus) and maybe this thread will turn around and become a good thing afterall now that it's a discussion rather than a napalm drop zone.:D
 
What is your price limit? I think that would clarify a lot of things.
 
all this stuff got me going crazy i had to grind a razor...
just for the heck of it to mess with the geometry and such. boy did this thing come out pretty cool. razor sharp. as sharp as i could get with the stones i keep on hand
though its recommended to take them a lot higher. more like 6000 to 10000 grit
time to go grind another one, and try making some handles
 
Michael J. Spangler said:
all this stuff got me going crazy i had to grind a razor...
just for the heck of it to mess with the geometry and such. boy did this thing come out pretty cool. razor sharp. as sharp as i could get with the stones i keep on hand
though its recommended to take them a lot higher. more like 6000 to 10000 grit
time to go grind another one, and try making some handles
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Don't tease Mike...if you're going to play around at least post pictures!!! Also yes the most common practice in straight razors is to uses a combination stone from Norton that is 4000 and 8000 grit.

As for naming my price limit...to be totally honest I can't say that I have one. I just will know what I consider affordable when I hear it. I AM re thinking things in my mind now that damascus is kind of out for the set. Might just get one damascus and one 1095 mirrored razor done which would be a lot cheaper bu not quite as much fun.
 
i might have missed it in the earlier post, but what was the need of 7 razors?
well 1095 could be good but that stuff isn't always fun to Heat treat, O1 on the other hand is something just about any maker will work with. and man let me tell you the edge on this blade i made was pretty serious, even at only 1000 grit or so. time to go find a norton stone.
gawker I'll send you some pics when its all done. i found with about a 3/4" wide blade 1/8" thick ground on an 8" wheel to a zero grind, its super super thin, seems a perfect grind for that style of blade.
 
The seven is a throwback to the days when this was the ONLY way to get a shave. Often well off men would have a set of seven matching razors in a nice case that they would only have to hone and prep say once a week as a group leaving them to enjoy a new blade every day of the week. It's a luxery thing I guess :D

The general spine to blade width ratio is 3.5, and straight razor widths are commonly referred to in 1/8s so your 3/4 is called a 6/8 razor. The most common blade width is a 5/8 and one of the most popular is the 7/8.
Here's how the razor works. In order to get the correct edge angle using the spine as a guide...the dimensions of the spine in relation to the blade width is W/3.5=S

Or for a 5/8 inch wide razor (measured from edge to spine) the proper spine thickness would be about 0.178 inches or 178 thousandths of an inch (right?). Likewise a 7/8 inch razor like I'm wanting would require a spine thickness of 1/4 inch although I can't verify that as I don't own a 7/8 razor yet. The reason for the ratio staying the same based on blade width is to account for the angle changing as you push the edge farther from the spine.

This is not set in stone it's just the general rule of thumb. That being said your 6/8 with a 1/8 spine would have to be ridiculously sharp :D I wouldn't mind shaving with that bad boy once to give it a try.

EDIT: and you had damn well better send pics cause I have GOT to see this thing. Are you a straight shaver as well or did you make it for giggles?
 
Gawker,You have come around to the suggestion I made in the errant email.Make a set of six 1095 razors with a seventh damascus one with a high number of layers (1000-3000,perhaps 1095 and 15N20).The damascus razor will make your set special,while the six HC steel razors will be awesome sharp.When you get them done let me know,I'll cut you a pair of mammoth ivory handle scales (for the damascus one)if you send me a template.You deserve that much for putting up with all our stuff on this thread!
 
bladsmth said:
Gawker,You have come around to the suggestion I made in the errant email.Make a set of six 1095 razors with a seventh damascus one with a high number of layers (1000-3000,perhaps 1095 and 15N20).The damascus razor will make your set special,while the six HC steel razors will be awesome sharp.When you get them done let me know,I'll cut you a pair of mammoth ivory handle scales (for the damascus one)if you send me a template.You deserve that much for putting up with all our stuff on this thread!
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That's a FANTASTIC IDEA!!! And don't you think I won't hold you to those ivory scales if I pull this off. Something to set apart the set and a spectacular material to do it in. Plus going that route would give me a lower cost set with 6 long long LONG term use blades and a very nice dammy for less damaging use. If there was an evil scheming smily I'd insert it here...the whole concept has shifted in my mind slightly. Thanks Stacy...if I ever get the details pulled together this is going to be one fantastic end product just for all the time and thought that's getting put into it just trying to pull things together :D
 
i hope this works out for you
sounds like for all the ruffed up feathers round here that it will be well worth it
ooo and i dam well want to see pictures also
butch
 
Very interesting thread,damn gawker by the time you get that shave in you'll need a hedge trimmer not a straight razor! while your at it you might as well throw a couple tang pins in the blade and add two handles :)
 
Was the pics request aimed at me or Mike? Cause IF I can get everything worked out detail-wise, AND can come up with the money to actually go through with this (providing it's just not within my realm of financial capability) I promise there will be as many pictures as I can possibly provide including as many process pictures I can talk the maker into taking for me. Now that the overall design scheme is changing, however, I'm going to take some time to re-think the scales and overall looks of the set.

Initially I wanted a seven piece damascus set with carbon fiber scales because I'm much more into the modern synthetics look than old world woods and stuff. But Stacy offered a set of mammoth scales and, assuming it wasn't a gag, I'm thinking there could be a way to blend the two worlds using damascus and mammoth combined with regular steel and synthetics to a very nice end result. I just have to figure out what might look good and how to tie everything together.

What do you guys think of a the mammoth and dammy razor paired with 6 razors with 1095 and carbon fiber or blue/black G10 scales all layed to rest in a dark wood case? I'm thinking the whiteness of the ivory with the darker dammy blade would make for a nice contrast to the rest of the blades being mirror polished with darker scales. And maybe I could find something REALLY special like a good piece of mammoth tooth to use for an inlay in the lid of the case? That is unless the ivory is the darker bark in which case a lighter scale on the other razors would contrast.

The longer I think this thing through the more I like it :D
 
balibalistic said:
Very interesting thread,damn gawker by the time you get that shave in you'll need a hedge trimmer not a straight razor! while your at it you might as well throw a couple tang pins in the blade and add two handles :)
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Oh ye of little faith...I've got my trusty 50 year old Henckels 5/8 to keep my tidy for now. As for the other comment...what you and I have my friend...is "Sickness";)
 
well there will be some pics soon don't worry. i got to sharpen it rough with an arkansas stone i have. and i also sharpened an old 6/8 razor i have sitting around. and let me tell you cutting up some leather, the one i ground out of 1/8" steel was a way better cutter, maybe its the geometry and maybe its the better steel, but that thing got sharp.
Gawker are you looking to have the whole set made with handles too?

you could always look into having a maker grind blades pre profiled by water-jet cutting.
a nice easy way to keep them all the same. and pretty affordable too.
newaterjet.com can take care of it for you.
have you found a maker to grind them yet?
 
Gawker,You've really kicked the hornets nest now! Half of us will be in the shop this weekend trying to make a razor.Might go and make one myself.I was dead serious about the mammoth............ I just went and looked in the ivory cabinet.There are some pieces of nice creamy mammoth that are long enough to cut razor scales from.But, I also saw something that may make a real good pair for the set - I have some fantastic tan colored mammoth bone that looks like beige/tan colored ivory.Think oosik on steroids.I have saved this stuff for special projects.If you want,I can do the handles from this.We can kick this around later,but I though I'd plant the seed.
I have a big piece from the top of the femur (16X8") that I have smoothed a section and laid it out for a large scrimshaw project.I am thinking mammoths being attacked by a group of hunters (or a bare breasted cave girl riding a mammoth - Hey Cindy, I may need a model).Could take a year or two to finish,either way.
 
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