Looking for advise on steel

B

Blunt Axe

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Aug 12, 2018
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I'm a complete knife newbie....

Obviously I'm looking for the ideal knife, which I think that starts with finding the best steel. I've been reading about which steel is hardest, has best edge retention, most corrosion proof, easiest to sharpen, etc. But more knowledge comes with more confusion :-)

For me a knife is a tool. I'm not the type of guy that handles his stuff with great care. The ideal steel for me isn't just razor sharp but can take lots of abuse.

Cutting boxes, plastic (buckets), rubber, electric wiring, tin cans.
Prying open paint cans. Some chopping. Some digging. Scraping some dirt away, etc

I have vitually no experience sharpening and am planning to buy one of those small $10 sharpners.

I've read and watched quite a few reviews and most are totally useless. Endless talking about esthetics, weight, unboxings, etc. But hardly every real cutting tests. Or even less bending and chipping tests. Remarks like it feels good in my hand but never anything about slipping with wet, dirty hands. I often get the impression most reviewers never really use knives but just look at them like a stamp collection.



But I'm drifting of… I'll try to pick my own folder with the steel as a starting point. The way I understand steel is very often a trade-off. That's why I'm not asking for the perfect steel. But I would like to know which steels certainly outperform other steels.

For example I've read that CPM-S35VN (vastly) outclasses S30V, S60V, S90V, 154, 420HC and M390 steel.
Source: http://blog.bladeops.com/what-is-cpm-s35vn-steel.html

I would be most grateful for similar little comparative lists.
A list of utter junk steel to avoid is very helpful too.
I also welcome suggestions on which steel fits best with my demands.
I'm simply overwelmed by the 1000s of knives to chose from. But if could focus on just 1-3 types of steel, thins would be much easier for me.


Blades come in many thicknesses. Ignoring weight and price, what are the advantages of a thick blade? They are stronger when comparing the same steel. But at what cost does that come? Harder to cut things? I've seen 2mm thich blades and 5mm blades. As I wrote I have zero experience but it's just my feeling that for peeling an apple the 2mm blade is better....

Thanks for any advise!
 
Can't help you out about the steel other than at these higher end steels most mortals won't be able to tell much difference on a user level.
As for sharpener, I started a thread on that recently and other than recommending a few systems, the bottom line is pay a few more bucks for something that is relatively easy to use and does a decent job. Lansky and Sharpmaker were the top choices.
 
There is no ideal knife.

  • Knives good at slicing apples are thin, and any steel will work.
  • Knives good at cutting tough things like buckets should be thicker and tougher so they resist lateral forces better.
  • Knives good at cutting hard things like wire are often thin and very hard, but wire really ruins most edc utility edges quickly.
  • Knives good at being a prybar are really thick like a prybar, with tougher steel.
  • A $10 sharpener does not put on a good edge for any of the above uses.

So you need a thin, thick, really thick knife, with hard, really hard, and softer (tougher) steel, sharpened with better than a $10 sharpener.

There is no ideal knife.

That said, I’d forget the prybar and digging stuff, and live with a knife that’s somewhat crappy at apples. Go for the middle: a relatively thick, hard work knife in any of the modern stainless steels. S35Vn is good but does not outclass most of those other steels. S35Vn, cpm154, M390, all great. S90v is hard to sharpen, and I’ll bet that’s already going to be your issue. None of these steels will matter if you can’t sharpen.

Your work sounds punishing on a knife, so I’d get get a diamond combination stone like a dmt diafold c/f and practice on an old kitchen knife, and then you’ll be better off for replacing an edge at work.
 
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Griptilian, tough, relatively cheap if broken with awesome warranty. Tough and super good cutter. Strong while still slices well! My 2 cents
 
Start with S30V- It's priced reasonably. Use it, sharpen it and get a feel for it. If you need more or better then you have a baseline for comparisons.

Since you're new- Is it the journey and discovery you are looking forward to or Are you looking for a great knife and just want to use it?
 
Currently, there's a wide choice of good knives in S35VN and M390 or one of it's variants.
Think about the type of work you're going to put the knife through, that will dictate the blade geometry you will need. Certainly, you wouldn't want a thin blade to open paint cans with:eek:
In order to maintain your knife, and not damage the edge, you need a decent sharpener.
 
Welcome. No disrespect but you are not going to be able to tell the differences between decent steels at this point anyway. The ones can are steel junkies who have been trying and playing with steels for a while. Not somebody who digs with their knife and gets a 10 buck sharpener.

Nothing wrong with digging and a 10 dollar sharpener, it's just that you are wasting your time worrying about steel.

Get a Kabar Dozier Folding Hunter or Ontario RAT.

They are inexpensive, well built, highly regarded knives with an excellent, easy to sharpen steel. Pretend the steel is CPM-S35VN....you wont be able to tell it isn't.
 
Most places that sell paint will give you a free paint can opener that can be used to pry other things. All you have to do is ask for one. They usually have a bottle opener on the other end and they fit in your pocket.

If that doesn't work for you, I'd recommend something from Kershaw with a steel that starts with 8cr. The $10 sharpener will work on it and you won't feel so bad when you bugger up the pivot of a $29.95 knife.
 
Sounds like you need a thick blade stock some s35vn and a sharpmaker with some diamond rods for when you chip the edge.
 
Ontario Rat
Cold steel American lawman
Opinel No. 8
Spyderco Native
Spyderco Endura
Spyderco Gayle Bradley 2

All good places to start.
 
For the applications you mention, any knife of any steeltype will take some serious damage. And dull swiftly.

So a steel which is very easy to sharpen would be a good bet.

Take a look at INFI. Very easy to sharpen.
And it is actually a jack of all trades steel.
Not the best at anything, but fares very well at all parameters which a steel is measured by.
They only make fixed blade knives, however.
 
Blunt Axe said:
I'm a complete knife newbie....

Obviously I'm looking for the ideal knife, which I think that starts with finding the best steel. I've been reading about which steel is hardest, has best edge retention, most corrosion proof, easiest to sharpen, etc. But more knowledge comes with more confusion :)

For me a knife is a tool. I'm not the type of guy that handles his stuff with great care. The ideal steel for me isn't just razor sharp but can take lots of abuse.

Cutting boxes, plastic (buckets), rubber, electric wiring, tin cans.
Prying open paint cans. Some chopping. Some digging. Scraping some dirt away, etc

I have vitually no experience sharpening and am planning to buy one of those small $10 sharpners.

Thanks for any advise!
Click to expand...

Blacplastik said:
You need a shovel, flat head screwdriver for prying, and wire cutters.
Click to expand...

I agree, using a knife like you plan to all you will accomplish with a knife is to ruin it.
You need a folding shovel, screw driver, pry tool, wire cutters, scraper and a hatchet.
For a knife get a Kabar Dozer or Ontario Rat. AUS-8 is easy to sharpen.

Good link to bladeops, now I know to Never to go there for useful knife information.
 
Thanks for all the answers!
Using the knife as prybar got some attention :-) Likely I won't, it was my way of explaining I'm not gentle with my stuff.

About the steels, yeah I'm very much aware I wouldn't be able to tell which one is which. And frankly speaking I don't need to know. I just want quality steel and above all let's call it "Dollar Tree Steel"...
So I'm looking for "stay away from ..." advise.

A reason I'm focussing on high end steel is that it's good and I guess the folders using it are generally of good quality.
If you read my demands of the blade you likely figured out the overal contruction should be good. Perfect lock. The handle can take some abuse. Smooth flipper action is great, but no great concern to me.


So CMP-35VN is a great steel that I'm likley unable to sharpen. And if I can it requires an expensive sharpner?

Blade Grind: Hollow, flat.
Can anyone give me a few words about the pros and cons of those types? Sharpning, performance, etc
 
Hi Blunt Axe

I sharpen my blunt axe on the sidewalk, you?

Here are some of my thoughts about the questions you asked. You will get lots of good ideas from the folks on BladeForums.

I think there are many important things in a knife other than steel. Most all experienced knife users will tell you this. I EDC a Gayle Bradley1 because I like the feel of the knife and it had a good reputation for work around the shop, yard, etc. It has M4 steel in the blade which is a high speed machine steel meaning it can stand up to some stress and abuse. That said I will never claim it is the best knife or best steel, just one that is good for my purposes.

It seems to me that many newbies think all there is to a good knife is a certain type of super steel. They spend a bundle buying a knife that has the super steel, and then they use some other knives with different shapes, steel, heat treatment, etc. and find out that they like them too. Then confusion sets in and they realize there is no one perfect knife, just a ton of very good knives, with very good steel blades, from which they have to make choices when buying. It can get very confusing, at least it was for me at first. I tend to go with what other experienced knife folks like and have used. I don't see any sense in reinventing the wheel.

I have a contractor friend that beats the heck out a big Buck 110 daily. You might want to check them out as they are pretty beefy.

I hope you have fun in your search for the knife grail!

 
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My pick for a first knife is my first folder, a Kershaw blackout 1550T i like the serrated blade but it also comes non serrated.
A 3.25 inch (8.4 cm) Blade Matl. is Sandvik 14C28N and is DLC coated,Handle is Glass filled Nylon.
Price under $100 US this makes it a really good choice for EDC.
 
"Blades come in many thicknesses. Ignoring weight and price, what are the advantages of a thick blade? They are stronger when comparing the same steel. But at what cost does that come? Harder to cut things?"
"I have vitually no experience sharpening and am planning to buy one of those small $10 sharpners."
"So CMP-35VN is a great steel that I'm likley unable to sharpen. And if I can it requires an expensive sharpner?"
"Blade Grind: Hollow, flat."

Thick blades are stronger but at a price, thick blades do not cut as well. They are harder to push through material like card board or "plastic (buckets)", than a thin blade.
I avoid any folder over .115 thick.
The reason I suggested the Kabar Dozer or Ontario Rat is because AUS-8 is easy to learn to sharpen and both are good bangs for the buck.
S35vn is a good steel but not for $10 sharpeners.
If you want a good cutting knife stick to a flat or maybe hollow ground but avoid saber ground blades. They are just wedges.
 
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