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I think he is talking to druid...
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Looking for Bowie Knife. Something to make Jim Bowie and James Keating proud...
- Thread starter EXECUTION STYLE
- Start date
I think he is talking to druid...
it was not my intention to break the rules or offend anyone. i am not trying to start a business selling bowie knives here. a guy asked and i answered. if you want to purchase the ultimate bowie then check out this link. this mans work is beautiful. never met him but have seen his work.
check it out if you want a real bowie
http://yeatesbowies.com/
check it out if you want a real bowie
http://yeatesbowies.com/
larry harley
BANNED
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Originally posted by Keith Montgomery
Wow, you are bringing back all the old bowie threads so that you can advertise this knife. Once again, you are only allowed to advertise in the appropriate forums and only if you are a Gold or Knifemaker member.
so this is where i,m supposed to say hey guys i just finished a wonderful knife its at www. look here
what do u think???
its got gold lip ivory hnadles and inlaied mother of plastic guard
its cheep just 2.95
i,m not that kind
if i,m gonna spam i gen tell every one first lol
on another note i,ve been here since there was a here, here
i sometimes take a hiatus for a few mos every now and then
whats this about gold members and knifemaker members
do they want to charge us for this chat board??
its kinda redicilus to charge the makers if it werent for us there wouldnt be a here here
dont see why this place should be any different
just another case of no one doing ANYTHING for the makers
except trying to make money off others work
its rediculas at the # of people lined up too, who think they DESERVE money from our sweat
promoters ,advertisers ,dealers!!
the list goes on and on
all shows w the exception of the guild show (and i sometimes wonder about it)is put on for the promoters to grub money from makers
if it were not so then table fees would drop and they would advertise to make money off the door
harley
oh yea i almost forgot. i knives for sale lol
www.lonesomepineknives.com
I have this one on order from Rob Brown!
Rob's work is flawless and right now it's still cheap by US standards.
Heck i'm sorry, this ones over $200, didn't read enough of the first post before i posted this.
http://www.robbrownknives.com/
James
Rob's work is flawless and right now it's still cheap by US standards.
Heck i'm sorry, this ones over $200, didn't read enough of the first post before i posted this.
http://www.robbrownknives.com/
James
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- Nov 30, 1999
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You can also give Rob Patton's blades a look see. www.PattonKnives.com
OK, E.S.> read all the replies, and what great knives are to be had,some really superior knives in fact. I personally have handled most of them, If you want to make jim and James proud, then by all means call up Comtech headquarters and order one of the new variants of the Crossada!!!! It will be in your price range, and just happens to be the ultimate fighting blade. You'll be one of the select few, and old Bowie would piss his pants to have one.....Tork
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- Oct 18, 2001
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Dude...
you resurrected a way dead thread...let 'em die, boys...let 'em die...
you resurrected a way dead thread...let 'em die, boys...let 'em die...
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- Oct 28, 1999
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Thanks much Ed!
If you are looking for a fighting Bowie under $200 with all the features that Keating and Bagwell see fit for that type of fighting, then the Ontario Helles Belle is the way to go. If had to choose though...on a production Bowie under $200 I would go with the Cold Steel Laredo. I like the blade and steel better than the Ontario and I really dont think that the blade catching guard is all that necessary.
Either way....these two knives capture the basic principles set for by Bagwell and Keating in tip design, size, thickness, etc.
Bellamy17, it is my understanding that the general run of Bowie style knives that were made and sold all over the South and West during the period 1835-1865 were used as tools for camp and hunting more than anything else, mostly because the revolver had so quickly replaced the single-shot muzzle-loading pistol as the weapon of choice. The Bowie was seen as more than a match for any of the latter in a close quarters fight, but the revolver, giving 4-5 reliable shots depending upon the model, was more than a match for the Bowie. This relegated the knife to other uses besides that of being a primary weapon. Remember the old chesnut about never taking a knife to a gunfight? Well, it became true with Sam Colt making men equal. ("God made men, Col. Colt made them equal," was the old saying.)
Possum, please see the picture of the knife at the bottom of this article for which I have attached a link. It may have been the actual knife carried by James Bowie at the Alamo, but that is, to say the least, a controversial claim. It is, in any case, a knife that is easily dated to the 1830s and it has the same sort of curved quillons on it that the Bagwell knives have, leading me to believe that it may have been the inspiration for Bill Bagwell's guard design. In any case, it is a very clear pure fighting knife design feature, not a utility knife design feature. The picture of the knife in question is near the bottom of the page.
http://www.thealamofilm.com/article_bowie.htm
Possum, please see the picture of the knife at the bottom of this article for which I have attached a link. It may have been the actual knife carried by James Bowie at the Alamo, but that is, to say the least, a controversial claim. It is, in any case, a knife that is easily dated to the 1830s and it has the same sort of curved quillons on it that the Bagwell knives have, leading me to believe that it may have been the inspiration for Bill Bagwell's guard design. In any case, it is a very clear pure fighting knife design feature, not a utility knife design feature. The picture of the knife in question is near the bottom of the page.
http://www.thealamofilm.com/article_bowie.htm
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FullerH-
I've been searching unsuccessfully for a picture of the knife that Jim Bowie gave to Edwin forrest. It has simple walnut slab handles with no guard. Eye witnesses at the duel described it as "the large butcher knife he usually wears". And indeed it looks like a large butcher knife.
A few years ago Blade magazine ran an article about the possible contenders for title of "the origional Bowie knife". I don't remember seeing the knife you linked in that article. One of the contenders has a Ha' penny guard, which the top arm could be used for trapping, but not the bottom. I believe it's more a decorative thing. If that page you linked showed the rest of Mr. Bowie's portrait, you could see that he was holding a fancy knife or sword in his right hand, which has a D-guard and falcon head pommel. It looks *exactly* like Mr. Seguine's knife. (don't recall Seguine's first name. He was at the Alamo with Bowie, but was sent out as a messenger, and thus survived.) There's also the Ham knife, and of course the Searles knives, and others.
But, even if the knife you linked was indeed the "origional", I still stand by my statement that blade trapping guards were fairly rare in that era. There are pictures of at least a hundred origional Bowies in Wilson's books, and the only ones that even look like blade-trapping guards were actually just for aesthetics, IMO. (outstretched eagle wings and the sort) There is an advanced Bowie collector in my area who has over a hundred high grade origionals, and he has invited me over to fondle, er, I mean, inspect them.
He was showing me pictures of his collection, and again, I don't recall seeing a single blade-trapping guard. (I'll write about it when I've gotten to handle them in person, fellas. 
)
I've been searching unsuccessfully for a picture of the knife that Jim Bowie gave to Edwin forrest. It has simple walnut slab handles with no guard. Eye witnesses at the duel described it as "the large butcher knife he usually wears". And indeed it looks like a large butcher knife.
A few years ago Blade magazine ran an article about the possible contenders for title of "the origional Bowie knife". I don't remember seeing the knife you linked in that article. One of the contenders has a Ha' penny guard, which the top arm could be used for trapping, but not the bottom. I believe it's more a decorative thing. If that page you linked showed the rest of Mr. Bowie's portrait, you could see that he was holding a fancy knife or sword in his right hand, which has a D-guard and falcon head pommel. It looks *exactly* like Mr. Seguine's knife. (don't recall Seguine's first name. He was at the Alamo with Bowie, but was sent out as a messenger, and thus survived.) There's also the Ham knife, and of course the Searles knives, and others.
But, even if the knife you linked was indeed the "origional", I still stand by my statement that blade trapping guards were fairly rare in that era. There are pictures of at least a hundred origional Bowies in Wilson's books, and the only ones that even look like blade-trapping guards were actually just for aesthetics, IMO. (outstretched eagle wings and the sort) There is an advanced Bowie collector in my area who has over a hundred high grade origionals, and he has invited me over to fondle, er, I mean, inspect them.
He was showing me pictures of his collection, and again, I don't recall seeing a single blade-trapping guard. (I'll write about it when I've gotten to handle them in person, fellas. )
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- 13,348
If I were looking for a large production-type bowie I'd look no further than the Camillus OVB Fisk. Heckuva blade. No downward-curving guard though. (pic from knifeart.com)
For a custom bowie I think you're realistically looking at about $400 for something full-size. You did say you were willing to spend "at least" $200. A maximum figure might be more helpful in terms of getting meaningful recommendations. I'd second the suggestion for Robert Hankins and also add Craig Camerer to the list - excellent fit and finish and tremendous value in a big forged bowie. Here's a pic of a fancier Searles-type bowie he did for me:
And one final suggestion - George Tichbourne does some real nice bowies in the $400 - $500 range. Here's a particularly cool D-Guard (pic from www.tichbourneknives.com):
Cheers,
Roger
For a custom bowie I think you're realistically looking at about $400 for something full-size. You did say you were willing to spend "at least" $200. A maximum figure might be more helpful in terms of getting meaningful recommendations. I'd second the suggestion for Robert Hankins and also add Craig Camerer to the list - excellent fit and finish and tremendous value in a big forged bowie. Here's a pic of a fancier Searles-type bowie he did for me:
And one final suggestion - George Tichbourne does some real nice bowies in the $400 - $500 range. Here's a particularly cool D-Guard (pic from www.tichbourneknives.com):
Cheers,
Roger
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- Apr 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,913
Interesting thread on the guard issues of the original bowie knives used by Raezin, Jim, and others of the era.
Period pieces I've seen did not have the guards and like possum stated looked like they were large kitchen knives. A few had straight backs in line with the handle running to the tip and the edge well below the handle.
JB was influenced by fencing in his early days through his father who knew the art. Many of the moves he had developed with the long blade came from some of the fencing techniques.
Only a guess, but guards on the big knives followed in short order once they were carried by many for defense during the 1807-1830 era in the deep south.
New Orleans had French influenced fencing schools and Spanish sword skills were offered at the same time frame in the Crescent city.
This was durng the time New Orleans was halved between the French and Spaniards and they were constantly dueling for honor at the "Dueling Oaks", now a landmark to visitors within one of the larger parks in the city.
One of the great Oaks still stands and is commemorated as a place where up to 50 duels a day with knives took place to defend someones honor in it's prime.
The guarded rapiers and swords would have had to influence guards on the long knives of Bowie fame during the era. I suspect it didn't take one long to figure out that guards would save hands and fingers like the swords and rapiers, etc. and start being incorporated [ like an upgrade of sorts ].
During the era, men carried Bowies in the belts everywhere for defense. If one was serious about survival they took training from the masters in the city to develop the skills to survive at the "Oaks" if challenged.
Competition between the two factions in the city developed many challenges as to what techniques were better with the long knives everyone carried.
These knives were not carried for anything other than defense in the cities of the deep south. Later, during the migration to the west, they were used as a general purpose knife more often than a fighter.
So many men died from the duels and long knife fighting in the streets that some of the most restrictive knife laws in the country are in the deep southeastern section where the Bowie knife reined supreme as a defensive weapon when one knew how to use it properly and had been trained to kill with it.
The guards were probably an after thought based on results of the early duels and demand for safety of the hands and their inpiration probably taken from the swords of the era.
Edited to add: I've had the honor of visting the Oaks in New Orleans several years ago. Pics, of course, with the Bowies out and the gumbas I was with at the time.
Brownie
Period pieces I've seen did not have the guards and like possum stated looked like they were large kitchen knives. A few had straight backs in line with the handle running to the tip and the edge well below the handle.
JB was influenced by fencing in his early days through his father who knew the art. Many of the moves he had developed with the long blade came from some of the fencing techniques.
Only a guess, but guards on the big knives followed in short order once they were carried by many for defense during the 1807-1830 era in the deep south.
New Orleans had French influenced fencing schools and Spanish sword skills were offered at the same time frame in the Crescent city.
This was durng the time New Orleans was halved between the French and Spaniards and they were constantly dueling for honor at the "Dueling Oaks", now a landmark to visitors within one of the larger parks in the city.
One of the great Oaks still stands and is commemorated as a place where up to 50 duels a day with knives took place to defend someones honor in it's prime.
The guarded rapiers and swords would have had to influence guards on the long knives of Bowie fame during the era. I suspect it didn't take one long to figure out that guards would save hands and fingers like the swords and rapiers, etc. and start being incorporated [ like an upgrade of sorts ].
During the era, men carried Bowies in the belts everywhere for defense. If one was serious about survival they took training from the masters in the city to develop the skills to survive at the "Oaks" if challenged.
Competition between the two factions in the city developed many challenges as to what techniques were better with the long knives everyone carried.
These knives were not carried for anything other than defense in the cities of the deep south. Later, during the migration to the west, they were used as a general purpose knife more often than a fighter.
So many men died from the duels and long knife fighting in the streets that some of the most restrictive knife laws in the country are in the deep southeastern section where the Bowie knife reined supreme as a defensive weapon when one knew how to use it properly and had been trained to kill with it.
The guards were probably an after thought based on results of the early duels and demand for safety of the hands and their inpiration probably taken from the swords of the era.
Edited to add: I've had the honor of visting the Oaks in New Orleans several years ago. Pics, of course, with the Bowies out and the gumbas I was with at the time.
Brownie
A few points:
1) The knife with which James Bowie fought at the Vidalia Sandbar was one which Rezin had given him and was nought but a large butcher knife which did not satisfy him very well, AFAIK. It was after that famous brawl that he had a knife made to his specifications by either James Black or by J.D. Searle. (I know, there is some controversy over this, but Bernard Levine is not the final answer in all things about knives. Jerry Fisk has stated his support for the James Black version, for instance, and he is a credible student of the Bowie Knife.)
2) The J.D. Searle knives very frequently had a notch in the rear of the lower edge of the blade which they inherited from their lineal antecedents, the Spanish Daggers. These notches were a blade-trapping device still seen on Bagwell Bowies today. Further, Searle's knives were not only fighters, but utility knives, so a blade-trapping guard may not have been so important as it became later. Such a guard can be a real bother on a utility knife, indeed, any kind of an upper guard can be a bother.
3) I cannot help it if you have not seen that knife. That is your concern, not mine. It has been written up in numerous articles over the past ten to twenty years and it is not something that sprang, wholly grown like Athena, from my head. What I am saying is that there is a considerable history behind that picture, whatever you may say, and it has been dated to the 1830s by some very reputable persons, several of whom believe that it may well have been made by James Black and some even agree with Musso in that it may have been carried by Bowie at the Alamo. I do not make those last two claims for it, I only note that others have.
4) I suspect that brownie has the right of it, that those who used their knives for fighting rapidly learned that extended and downwardly curved quillons were much the best way to go, something that had been learned centuries before in Europe when daggers were used regularly in serious fighting. Other forms of blade trapping efforts were a brass strip on the back of the blade and file work on the back of the blade, although I cannot see how either would have worked nearly as well as the quillons on the Bagwell Bowies and on the Bowie in the picture.
1) The knife with which James Bowie fought at the Vidalia Sandbar was one which Rezin had given him and was nought but a large butcher knife which did not satisfy him very well, AFAIK. It was after that famous brawl that he had a knife made to his specifications by either James Black or by J.D. Searle. (I know, there is some controversy over this, but Bernard Levine is not the final answer in all things about knives. Jerry Fisk has stated his support for the James Black version, for instance, and he is a credible student of the Bowie Knife.)
2) The J.D. Searle knives very frequently had a notch in the rear of the lower edge of the blade which they inherited from their lineal antecedents, the Spanish Daggers. These notches were a blade-trapping device still seen on Bagwell Bowies today. Further, Searle's knives were not only fighters, but utility knives, so a blade-trapping guard may not have been so important as it became later. Such a guard can be a real bother on a utility knife, indeed, any kind of an upper guard can be a bother.
3) I cannot help it if you have not seen that knife. That is your concern, not mine. It has been written up in numerous articles over the past ten to twenty years and it is not something that sprang, wholly grown like Athena, from my head. What I am saying is that there is a considerable history behind that picture, whatever you may say, and it has been dated to the 1830s by some very reputable persons, several of whom believe that it may well have been made by James Black and some even agree with Musso in that it may have been carried by Bowie at the Alamo. I do not make those last two claims for it, I only note that others have.
4) I suspect that brownie has the right of it, that those who used their knives for fighting rapidly learned that extended and downwardly curved quillons were much the best way to go, something that had been learned centuries before in Europe when daggers were used regularly in serious fighting. Other forms of blade trapping efforts were a brass strip on the back of the blade and file work on the back of the blade, although I cannot see how either would have worked nearly as well as the quillons on the Bagwell Bowies and on the Bowie in the picture.
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Well, I for one don't mind resurrecting these old threads when it leads to such wonderful conversations. What could be better than a good talk about real Bowies?! 
Your points are well taken, Fuller. I would like to point out a minor detail about the Searles knives. I have never gotten to handle one, but have seen good photos of several of them, and IIRC, none of them have a "Spanish notch" as we now call it today. There is a small cutout area just in front of the guard, but the edge itself extends all the way to the guard. This repro is a good example. Thus, I think it's hardly correct to call them "blade trapping" notches. There is no way for a blade to get into that notch. BTW, There's some more awesome pics on that page of Bowies from the era we're discussing. Also, the brass back is another somewhat clouded topic. I agree with you that it really doesn't seem like it would be all that effective; I have my own personal theory about it's use.
I want to also make it clear I have only been voicing my opinions about "blade trapping" guards. Nearly all the origional Bowies I've seen (especially later ones.) of course do in fact have a generously sized crossguard.
I hesitate to draw parallels between the Bowie guard, and guards on older European weapons. That's a huge blanket. Just keep in mind, that depending on what era and location in Europe we discuss, complex guards were often not needed, since the warrior would be wearing steel guantles for hand protection, or even fairly heavy leather gloves at least. But, I am not well versed in that area, so I invite someone else to step in on that.
Your points are well taken, Fuller. I would like to point out a minor detail about the Searles knives. I have never gotten to handle one, but have seen good photos of several of them, and IIRC, none of them have a "Spanish notch" as we now call it today. There is a small cutout area just in front of the guard, but the edge itself extends all the way to the guard. This repro is a good example. Thus, I think it's hardly correct to call them "blade trapping" notches. There is no way for a blade to get into that notch. BTW, There's some more awesome pics on that page of Bowies from the era we're discussing. Also, the brass back is another somewhat clouded topic. I agree with you that it really doesn't seem like it would be all that effective; I have my own personal theory about it's use.
I want to also make it clear I have only been voicing my opinions about "blade trapping" guards. Nearly all the origional Bowies I've seen (especially later ones.) of course do in fact have a generously sized crossguard.
I hesitate to draw parallels between the Bowie guard, and guards on older European weapons. That's a huge blanket. Just keep in mind, that depending on what era and location in Europe we discuss, complex guards were often not needed, since the warrior would be wearing steel guantles for hand protection, or even fairly heavy leather gloves at least. But, I am not well versed in that area, so I invite someone else to step in on that.
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Hi possum,
It's only specualation that the guards would have been developed from the same daggers/swords used in that era by the spanish and french in or around New Orleans between 1800-1830's.
The spanish notch is clouded in mystery and I have no idea what may be correct or fallacy about them being added to long knives made for killing or when they first appeared.
From everything I have researched on it, the first such big knife James Bowie used regularly was one designed by rezin and made by Black for him to his specs. That knife, as far as i know did not have a guard.
Which knife he used at the sandbar? I haven't seen any documentation but if others have sources of interest, I'd like to hear of it.
I like this thread!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing like big bad a$$ blades to get ones blood boiling hey?
And I know you have used some of those big a$$ed blades to end a few lives on the farm haven't you young man?
Stay sharp
Brownie
It's only specualation that the guards would have been developed from the same daggers/swords used in that era by the spanish and french in or around New Orleans between 1800-1830's.
The spanish notch is clouded in mystery and I have no idea what may be correct or fallacy about them being added to long knives made for killing or when they first appeared.
From everything I have researched on it, the first such big knife James Bowie used regularly was one designed by rezin and made by Black for him to his specs. That knife, as far as i know did not have a guard.
Which knife he used at the sandbar? I haven't seen any documentation but if others have sources of interest, I'd like to hear of it.
I like this thread!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing like big bad a$$ blades to get ones blood boiling hey?
And I know you have used some of those big a$$ed blades to end a few lives on the farm haven't you young man?
Stay sharp
Brownie
Just have to say, well done chaps! I just love this stuff, my point is that the spanish notch deffinately works! and until you use a blade that has a functional lower guard that will feed the spanish notch you will never appreciate the function of this device. We are constantly dissarming our sparring partners with the spanish notch without even trying, It works so well if fact that we have to tape over the notch to sparr dissarm free!! Possum; looks like the Samuel Bell knife has a true blade catcher, which would have to function without the use of a guard, one would have to run the opponents blade.Well enough of that,anyway I dont recall that any of Bowies blades used either a spanish notch or curved, blade catching guards, let alone quillions, but rest assured he did use the backcut!!! Tork