Looking for different/ new stones for Edge Pro Apex

loonybin

loonybin

Joined
May 18, 1999
Messages
1,708
Thanks to the incredible generosity of a fellow on a different board, I now have an Edge Pro Apex. I am very grateful to him, as now I will be able to reprofile my s30v and M4 knives instead of making a futile attempt on my Sharpmaker.

However, he said I would need to replace a couple stones, so I am on a quest to find some that will work even better than the EP water stones but won't cost a fortune like the Norton or Chosera stones. Unfortunately, diamond hones are out of the question right now also (at least until next tax season). Any suggestions?

So far I've found some silicon carbide stones at Congress Tools that should work and cost less than the EP stones. I don't know what micron size they come in at, but reports are that they cut more aggressively than the EP stones. Other than that, I'm open to suggestions.

Also, how do I remove the old stones from the blanks?
 
So, what is your objective? You need specifically an aggressive re-profiling plate?

My choice in that at a low cost would be to look over at Ken's stuff on ChefKnivesToGo. His 125 micron diamond film plate would be just perfect for that use, and lasts a LONG time. Better yet? It's only $25 and comes mounted on a blank already. Don't bother removing the stones from the blanks, new blanks are only $3 or so a piece, and getting the stone off without damaging it is a pain. If for some reason you have a cracked stone or something like that you just want to replace, you can remove the glue by boiling them to soften, and levering it off while the glue is soft.

Incidentally, the adhesive used to bond the stones to the blanks is 3M Super-77, the same stuff you can get in the hardware store.

EDIT: The diamond plates I was talking about http://www.chefknivestogo.com/dilapl.html
 
Komitadjie said:
So, what is your objective? You need specifically an aggressive re-profiling plate?
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Actually, I'm wondering if I need them all. The stones I have say "C", "MF" (I'm assuming the 220grit medium?), "EF", and "UF", with two polishing tape blanks and some 3000grit polish tapes. The 320/400 grit "Fine" stone wasn't in there, and the "EF" stone is worn down far enough it needs to be replaced. The MF and UF look ok, but dirty.

The coarse stone is taking forever to reprofile even a "Paula Deen" santoku from Wal-Mart (so you know the steel isn't top quality), that advertised "Japanese high carbon stainless", so I'm guessing VG-1 or something similar, as it doesn't take much to dull it.

I saw some comments about the Moldmaster stones from Congress Tools being more aggressive than the AO stones from EP and at less cost -- #3-5/ stone for 80, 120, 150, 240, 320, 400, and 600 grit. I figured I would just replace the stones for the 120, 220, 400 and 600 grits and buy a blank for the Fine stone (total cost around $30). The kicker is that I don't know just how aggressive these stones are comparitavely. Maybe I don't need to do all of them -- just the coarse, fine, and extra fine?

I also want to get something between the 1000 grit stone and the 2000 grit polish tape, as a 7 micron to 1 micron jump I'm guessing is pretty big. Of course, it could be that the polish tapes aren't needed for my purposes, as I prefer a slightly toothier edge on my pocket & hunting knives, and I don't think my wife would notice a difference between a polished edge and a 7micron edge on her kitchen knives.

My choice in that at a low cost would be to look over at Ken's stuff on ChefKnivesToGo. His 125 micron diamond film plate would be just perfect for that use, and lasts a LONG time. Better yet? It's only $25 and comes mounted on a blank already. Don't bother removing the stones from the blanks, new blanks are only $3 or so a piece, and getting the stone off without damaging it is a pain. If for some reason you have a cracked stone or something like that you just want to replace, you can remove the glue by boiling them to soften, and levering it off while the glue is soft.
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I saw Ken's site and immediately began drooling! I'm not sure where you saw blanks for $3, though, as he lists them for $10. I thought about that 125 micron diamond plate, but i can get almost a full set of the Moldmaster stones for the same price as the one diamond plate. My budget is pretty thin right now, as I need to get a riding jacket, riding pants, and tear down/rebuild the carbs on my bike (my main commuter), so most of my available money is tied up in that. That's why I was hoping there were some good less expensive alternatives to the AO water stones. I was thinking of getting a set of the diamond ones next spring after tax season.

And thank you for the tips on getting the old stones off. The EF stone really must come off, and I don't care if I break it since I'll be replacing it. If I end up replacing all of them, then I'll definitely want to be careful with the others so that I can have them as backups if the Moldmaster stones or whatever else is out there doesn't cut it.
 
The stock stones are really quite awful for reprofiling, you CAN do it with the stock 120, but it takes FOREVER and eats up the stone pretty fast. I've also heard good things about the Moldmaster stones, but haven't had a chance to try them out myself. They're certainly inexpensive enough to give a shot!

For the top end, I'd say really the stock 1K stone is MORE than sufficient for most uses. The listing on the grit chart is a bit on the coarse side if you look at the performance, it cuts a lot finer than the number there would indicate. I don't think I'd worry about the extreme polishing at the top end yet, at least not until you can get the reprofiling the way you want it. When I was quoting $3 for blanks, I was meaning that you can make them yourself quickly and easily for ROUGHLY $3, if you buy the 1x1/8 aluminum bar from McMaster. A local source will likely have it cheaper. All you need to make 'em is a saw and a file, they are just a piece of 1x1/8, cut a tad over 6" long, with a half-chamfer at 45 degrees. I have made quite a few of them to try out different stuff.

Incidentally, if you just need to reprofile a couple knives on the cheap? Grab some wet-or-dry sandpaper down at your local auto store, and tape it to the coarse stone. Use edge-trailing strokes, and it'll cut through that steel amazingly quickly. I like 220 for that.
 
I have 150, 240, 320, 400, 600 grit moldmasters. The 150 is pretty useless for me. The 240 cuts somewhat less fast than the stock 120 EP for me. I too have read that the 320 cuts faster than the stock 120 EP but that is not the case for me.

Except for the 600 grit moldmaster, the rest are pretty hard and I haven't had to flatten them yet in spite of using them a lot. The 600 does seem a bit soft you'll probably wear it out sooner than the others.

Instead of buying blanks, I just went to a glass and aluminum supply store and bought some aluminum flat bars and cut them to the proper size. The angles on the ends of the blanks are around 45° to fit properly into the arm. I just lay the aluminum on the EP table and use it to cut the proper angles on the blanks. Costs me maybe 50 cents for each blank. Works every time. :D
 
singularity35 said:
I have 150, 240, 320, 400, 600 grit moldmasters. The 150 is pretty useless for me. The 240 cuts somewhat less fast than the stock 120 EP for me. I too have read that the 320 cuts faster than the stock 120 EP but that is not the case for me.

Except for the 600 grit moldmaster, the rest are pretty hard and I haven't had to flatten them yet in spite of using them a lot. The 600 does seem a bit soft you'll probably wear it out sooner than the others.
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In what way is the 150 useless for you? Too aggressive? Also, do you use oil or water with them, or can they be used dry? I called to ask them questions, but their technical guy is out of the country until next week.

Now I understand how folks are getting the EP blanks so cheap! I need to find some place that sells the aluminum plates. Do I look for a glass & aluminum store, or is it a specialty shop that also happens to have the aluminum?

Ben Dover said:
The ATOMA 1X6 EP mounted diamond plates from CKTG are difficult to beat for re-profiling. :thumbup:

www.chefknivestogo.com
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At $75 I'm sure it is! However, the point of this thread was finding something affordable that will cut better than the stock EP 120grit stone, possibly a whole set of stones at the same price point. Eventually I will get something like the Atoma plate or some other diamond plates or Shapton/chosera stones, but for right now, I don't have the funds for it.
 
See if you can buy the 400 grit chosera stone by itself. It cuts fast.

The stock EP stones are fine after that.

I think the Chosera's are worth every penny.
 
loonybin said:
In what way is the 150 useless for you? Too aggressive? Also, do you use oil or water with them, or can they be used dry? I called to ask them questions, but their technical guy is out of the country until next week.
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No, the 150 grit is NOT too aggressive. From what I see with my use, it's just as aggressive as the 240 so it's not an improvement. There are lower grit moldmasters like the 120 and the 80 grits. I haven't given them a try though. The Ruby stones from Congress Tools have some lower grits(80 and 150) and are said to be more aggressive than the SiC in hogging metal.

I use glass cleaner to lube them because it seems to keep the stones cleaner and takes longer to clog them than the dish soap and water that I use for the stock EP stones.

loonybin said:
Now I understand how folks are getting the EP blanks so cheap! I need to find some place that sells the aluminum plates. Do I look for a glass & aluminum store, or is it a specialty shop that also happens to have the aluminum?
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I dunno how it is there but I went to a place that makes and installs aluminum framed doors and windows. It's also where I got a 14"X14"X1/4" pane of glass that I use with the EP SiC powder to flatten my stones.
 
" I need to find some place that sells the aluminum plates. "

Home improvent stores usually sell aluminum bar stock in their hardware section. On the Lowes website it can be found under Home: Hardware: Miscellaneous & Specialty Hardware: Metal Products . For example, they have 1/8"x1" x 8 ft. for $13.56. I expect a big metal shop would have it cheaper but a Lowes is pretty easy to find. HomeDepot also has metal bar stock in their hardware section.
 
singularity35 said:
No, the 150 grit is NOT too aggressive. From what I see with my use, it's just as aggressive as the 240 so it's not an improvement. There are lower grit moldmasters like the 120 and the 80 grits. I haven't given them a try though. The Ruby stones from Congress Tools have some lower grits(80 and 150) and are said to be more aggressive than the SiC in hogging metal.
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I am surprised by that, as someone else pointed out that the Ruby stones are AO and not silicon carbide.

Belker said:
" I need to find some place that sells the aluminum plates. "

Home improvent stores usually sell aluminum bar stock in their hardware section. On the Lowes website it can be found under Home: Hardware: Miscellaneous & Specialty Hardware: Metal Products . For example, they have 1/8"x1" x 8 ft. for $13.56. I expect a big metal shop would have it cheaper but a Lowes is pretty easy to find. HomeDepot also has metal bar stock in their hardware section.
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I'll have to look closer. I thought the only thing I found at HD and Lowes was steel. I must have missed the Al.
 
Belker said:
" I need to find some place that sells the aluminum plates. "

Home improvent stores usually sell aluminum bar stock in their hardware section. On the Lowes website it can be found under Home: Hardware: Miscellaneous & Specialty Hardware: Metal Products . For example, they have 1/8"x1" x 8 ft. for $13.56. I expect a big metal shop would have it cheaper but a Lowes is pretty easy to find. HomeDepot also has metal bar stock in their hardware section.
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Can you confirm that the blanks need to be 1/8", which is the same thickness as the stones?
 
I have the Congress Moldmasters in 220 and 320 grits. Ankerson suggested them. They cut like a demon and have a lot of feeling to them. I can rip right through S30v profilings like its 420HC. They really are something else, on top of the price (I got something like 8 stones for less than $40 shipped) they are very good. And yes, they cut many times faster than any EP stock stone I have tried. Many times faster.
 
I cut out strips of wet-sandpaper and mount one on a blank. Remember to wet them, so as not to inhale any dust (slow killer!). It works like a charm and it's cheap. One sheet of sandpaper will give you like 20 strips or whatever.
 
Well, I found the aluminum bar at Lowes, so I have that and some Moldmaster stones in 120, 240, 400, and 600. Apparently, the 600grit Moldmaster is a massive 30micron, so about equivalent to the EP 400grit stones. I'll get the stock EP stones for finer work.
 
loonybin said:
Well, I found the aluminum bar at Lowes, so I have that and some Moldmaster stones in 120, 240, 400, and 600. Apparently, the 600grit Moldmaster is a massive 30micron, so about equivalent to the EP 400grit stones. I'll get the stock EP stones for finer work.
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Yeh, you'll need the EP 600 and 1000 after the 600 grit MM.
 
Well, after using the 120grit and 240 grit Moldmaster stones, I can say they definitely cut better than the EP stones. I still need to order the 600 and 1000 EP stones, though.
 
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Well, I just used the 600 grit Moldmaster stone, and I am surprised at the amount of junk coming off the stone! It isn't metal, so it must be the binding resin. There is actually a pile of it and it looks like clay. I'll get pics later. I have to say, that this is disconcerting, as I may have to get a different stone for the 30micron stage (about where the 320 grit EP stone is). I did not see this kind of stuff when using the 120 and 240 grit MM stones.

moldmasterstoneslough.jpg
 
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