Looking for my NEXT EDC: $500 or less, with these specifics...

Glock Guy

Glock Guy

Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
1,595
Hey guys,

So I'm looking for my next EDC knife and wanted to get some input from this awesome forum.

My current EDC is a Spyderco Southard that I love. The size is *almost* perfect, and after the initial cleaning and use the flipping action is really smooth. However it doesn't seem to hold an edge that great. I have a Wicked Edge sharpener, so that's possibly due to the angle I'm using, (input appreciated there, too!) Basically I'm just looking for something a little different, but still with some of the same qualities I like. I AM on the waiting list for a Southard TOLK, which I'm thinking will ship mid-March now. I'm wondering if you can help me out with a few suggestions based on what I like about my current EDC and what I'm looking to pick up:

Basics of what I'm looking for:

  • MUST be a folder.
  • $500 or less.
  • 5" closed or a little smaller, - Nothing Larger!
  • Great Edge Retention.
  • Flippers are great, but not a deal breaker if it's not as long as the action is smooth.
  • Can be opened and closed easily with one hand.
  • Daily carry with typical use - cutting boxes/paper/tape/etc. I'm not looking to take this thing into war or the rain forest, but nothing too fragile that it couldn't be used for self defense if need be.

A few I've tried out/owned:

  • Sebenza 25 and Umnumzaan - Just didn't really like the ergos and opening action of either.
  • ZT's: ZT0562CF - Not bad, and GREAT flipper. ZT0560 - Just felt too damn big! ZT801 - Too boring looking and didn't like the feel. ZT350 - Nice, but not into the assisted open blades anymore.
  • Emersons: Had a few, and after cleaning up the action I liked them. Fairly smooth, and while not the best in fit/finish, they were nice in other ways. Wave is a nice feature.
  • Benchmade: Had the Rift. Sold it because I didn't like the ergos and the Axis lock, while solid, wasn't the easiest to manipulate with one hand. Vastly prefer frame or liner locks.
  • Spyderco: Starmate - sucked, and sent back. Vallotton - Very nice but a little heavy/big. Native - my 1st Real knife! It was nice, but a little small.

That's it. Pretty simple I hope, and looking forward to hearing some thoughts/recommendations on some common blades as well as some that might be off my radar.

Thanks in advance for any input!
 
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Sounds like you might like the ZT0620, especially the CF model with M390 steel. Emerson design with ZT materials and finish.

Another good option might be a Diskin Flipper, but only if you go to shows and can get it at the table price of $500. Otherwise you will pay more because they only sell for that price straight from Matt himself.

Ferrum Forge Ferox would be good if you are okay with taking care of carbon steel in a folder (easy enough with EDCi or HDCi solutions), as it has 4V steel.

There are some really good options in that price range, I will say, so you might have a bunch of recommendations at the end of the day...
 
The Southard is in CTS 204P, which is chemically identical to M390, if I recall correctly. If it's not holding an edge, I would look at what you've put on it. Those steels are known for being great users.
 
Al Mar knives payara or shrike not your typical everyday carry nor seen everyday either. Solid knives though
 
RBid said:
The Southard is in CTS 204P, which is chemically identical to M390, if I recall correctly. If it's not holding an edge, I would look at what you've put on it. Those steels are known for being great users.
Click to expand...

IIRC I had it set up as 30 inclusive (15 per side on the WE), and have been touching it up with a Sharpmaker and strop. I open a lot of boxes by cutting tape and *occasionally* cardboard for my business, and the edge doesn't even last the day.

I was doing some research, and I think I either need to back it off to around 40 inclusive, or do some type of micro-bevel.
 
Charr said:
Sounds like you might like the ZT0620, especially the CF model with M390 steel. Emerson design with ZT materials and finish.

Another good option might be a Diskin Flipper, but only if you go to shows and can get it at the table price of $500. Otherwise you will pay more because they only sell for that price straight from Matt himself.

Ferrum Forge Ferox would be good if you are okay with taking care of carbon steel in a folder (easy enough with EDCi or HDCi solutions), as it has 4V steel.

There are some really good options in that price range, I will say, so you might have a bunch of recommendations at the end of the day...
Click to expand...

Thanks Charr! I have really looked at the ZT 0620, but the deal breaker are the ugly scales with the recessed grooves.

The Diskin has some potential, but the odds of me getting to a show anytime in the near future are nil.

Ferox is not turning my crank, either. I think it's the overly large flipper. I'm sure that works great but really ugli-fies the knife IMO.


jfk1110 said:
Al Mar knives payara or shrike not your typical everyday carry nor seen everyday either. Solid knives though
Click to expand...

Now THIS is why I made this post. To get recommendations from people with far more experience than me and to see what was not on my radar.

I've thought about getting an Al Mar for some time, and while the Payara is not really my taste, the Shrike seems right up my alley.

That is the FIRST new addition to the short list to research! Thanks JFK!
 
Yeah, a 40 degree micro may help.

I have an Al Mar Payara. The Shrike and Nomad are designed by the same guy-- ABS master smith Kirk Rexroat. The action in my Payara is unreal. No blade play in any direction, great grind, F&F is awesome. The steel is VG-10. Edge retention won't hold up to CTS 204P.
 
Three Sisters Forge Beast. CPM-S35VN, not a flipper but very, very smooth. Here are pics of mine:






He can make it lefty as well. There have been versions with M390, but he's currently using S35VN, which I have been very, very happy with.
 
Glock Guy said:
Thanks Charr! I have really looked at the ZT 0620, but the deal breaker are the ugly scales with the recessed grooves.

The Diskin has some potential, but the odds of me getting to a show anytime in the near future are nil.

Ferox is not turning my crank, either. I think it's the overly large flipper. I'm sure that works great but really ugli-fies the knife IMO.
Click to expand...

Yeah I can understand about most of your points for sure. The flipper on the Ferox did bother me at first too, but once I used it, I loved it. Admittedly, not an attractive design feature, but I just didn't care after I had a few hours to play with it. If you were willing to go a little above your price range, then I would have recommended the Fortis instead, also by Ferrum Forge. It has a smaller flipper, 20CV steel, and seems like an excellent folder, but if you don't like the grooved handles of the 0620, then yeah, you might not like it either.
And of course you can now get a Hinderer at a much lower price, though still a little above what you're listing.

Also, I have seen some amazing scales done by members here for the 0620, so if that's all that's holding you back from the knife, maybe get in touch with one of the craftsmen around here and get yourself a nice scale in LSCF or something ;)

See, my problem is that the knife that comes to my mind first is something like my Shirogorov 95, or a Hati, but those are WAY out of the price range you listed, so I bit my tongue a little :D
They are spectacular knives though ;)

For a smaller folder BTW, the BM Nakamura seems like a great little knife, either in CF or G10. Whether you want M390 or S90V, both are excellent knives from everything I've heard. Just a thought.
 
Glock Guy said:
IIRC I had it set up as 30 inclusive (15 per side on the WE), and have been touching it up with a Sharpmaker and strop. I open a lot of boxes by cutting tape and *occasionally* cardboard for my business, and the edge doesn't even last the day.

I was doing some research, and I think I either need to back it off to around 40 inclusive, or do some type of micro-bevel.
Click to expand...

If you are having that much trouble with CTS-204P, then either the blade was not properly heat treated, or it is not actually CTS-204P. That steel should never perform the way you are describing with that edge bevel as long as it is properly treated.

CTS-204P, M390, and 20CV should all hold an edge better than the vast majority of other steels. What you are describing seems comparable to something more like 8cr13mov, unless I am VASTLY underestimating the amount of cutting you're doing. Even then, you still shouldn't be having that much trouble with it.

There have been a large number of fakes of the Spyderco Southard floating around though, so I do want to ask if you bought it from a reputable dealer, and if you could post some pictures of the knife as well, because that is extremely suspect.
 
Charr said:
If you are having that much trouble with CTS-204P, then either the blade was not properly heat treated, or it is not actually CTS-204P. That steel should never perform the way you are describing with that edge bevel as long as it is properly treated.

CTS-204P, M390, and 20CV should all hold an edge better than the vast majority of other steels. What you are describing seems comparable to something more like 8cr13mov, unless I am VASTLY underestimating the amount of cutting you're doing. Even then, you still shouldn't be having that much trouble with it.

There have been a large number of fakes of the Spyderco Southard floating around though, so I do want to ask if you bought it from a reputable dealer, and if you could post some pictures of the knife as well, because that is extremely suspect.
Click to expand...

Charr,

The knife was purchased directly from BladeHQ. The only thing I did was dye the scale and spacer black with RIT dye. Here's a few pics of the finished product:





Also, I should clarify something. I said that "the edge doesn't even last the day", I mean that the starting sharpness deteriorates from the hair-popping sharpness at the beginning. It's still "working" sharp. That's what lead me to believe I am doing something wrong with the bevel. When I open boxes, I am cutting through packing tape and probably riding the edge in the front along more cardboard.

Maybe I'm overestimating what this steel can do when I say it's not staying sharp under that kind of workload?

Also, any suggestions on how YOU would sharpen it if it were your knife under those same work conditions?

Thanks to all who have chimed in so far. I really appreciate the feedback, and it looks like this post may even be correcting a "software" problem with my current EDC!
 
Glock Guy said:
Charr,

The knife was purchased directly from BladeHQ. The only thing I did was dye the scale and spacer black with RIT dye. Here's a few pics of the finished product:





Also, I should clarify something. I said that "the edge doesn't even last the day", I mean that the starting sharpness deteriorates from the hair-popping sharpness at the beginning. It's still "working" sharp. That's what lead me to believe I am doing something wrong with the bevel. When I open boxes, I am cutting through packing tape and probably riding the edge in the front along more cardboard.

Maybe I'm overestimating what this steel can do when I say it's not staying sharp under that kind of workload?

Also, any suggestions on how YOU would sharpen it if it were your knife under those same work conditions?

Thanks to all who have chimed in so far. I really appreciate the feedback, and it looks like this post may even be correcting a "software" problem with my current EDC!
Click to expand...

Okay, then at least you have good reliability as to the origins of the knife.

There is a very small chance that the heat treatment on your blade is not properly done, but I would not think that to be the case with Spyderco.
M390, and it's analogs (20CV, CTS-204P), have all worked exceptionally well for me. I do much the same types of cutting that you are describing, and I carry a Shirogorov with M390 steel. I have been running a test to see how long it will hold an edge, and it took at least 2 weeks of continual carry before my knife went from being able to shave hair to not being able to. Even after more than a month of carry now, it is still sharp enough to cut paper cleanly; however, the edge is now toothier, and will eat through cardboard like butter, but won't take hair off of your arm...without biting into your skin first.

What are you finishing the edge to when you sharpen it? Depending on how you are finishing it, you may be having an issue with material getting on the blade more than the blade actually getting dull, and then it just feels dull because the blade isn't making proper contact? Also, it does make a difference if you are polishing the edge or leaving it a little toothy with a steel like 204P. If you put it somewhere in between, and don't take the extra steps to finish it, you will find it becomes a toothy edge rather quickly, and will seem to be dulling when you test it on thin paper or hair, but will still glide through heavier materials like butter.
That is the only thing that really comes to mind for me.
 
Charr said:
Okay, then at least you have good reliability as to the origins of the knife.

There is a very small chance that the heat treatment on your blade is not properly done, but I would not think that to be the case with Spyderco.
M390, and it's analogs (20CV, CTS-204P), have all worked exceptionally well for me. I do much the same types of cutting that you are describing, and I carry a Shirogorov with M390 steel. I have been running a test to see how long it will hold an edge, and it took at least 2 weeks of continual carry before my knife went from being able to shave hair to not being able to. Even after more than a month of carry now, it is still sharp enough to cut paper cleanly; however, the edge is now toothier, and will eat through cardboard like butter, but won't take hair off of your arm...without biting into your skin first.

What are you finishing the edge to when you sharpen it? Depending on how you are finishing it, you may be having an issue with material getting on the blade more than the blade actually getting dull, and then it just feels dull because the blade isn't making proper contact? Also, it does make a difference if you are polishing the edge or leaving it a little toothy with a steel like 204P. If you put it somewhere in between, and don't take the extra steps to finish it, you will find it becomes a toothy edge rather quickly, and will seem to be dulling when you test it on thin paper or hair, but will still glide through heavier materials like butter.
That is the only thing that really comes to mind for me.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the input.

I'm basically doing the 30 inclusive all the way out to using the 1200/1600 ceramic, then finishing it off with a few passes on a Stropman strop with white compound on one side, green on the other. It is pretty polished when I am done!

So my question is should I go to something like a 36-40 inclusive and ONLY take it through the 800/1000 grit diamonds to get more of a toothy edge that will last a bit longer?

I don't care if it push cuts toilet paper, but I would like a little more durable edge for the heavier use stuff.

Thanks again!
 
Fallkniven folders are made with 2 excellent steels. Pxl in 3G and GP in Lam CoS. Glad to help.
 
Thanks again for all the help so far guys. I really appreciate it!

Looking forward to some more suggestions, even if they may be a bit higher than my $500 ceiling if that helps.
 
If you like your Southard pretty well, why not just go for the AVO and get all of you wish list boxes checked and have a upgraded version of the knife you already love?

That being said, I love my Medford 187(f), and an ADV Butcher or Pathfinder would fit the bill as well. Good luck deciding man.

Not sure where they are as far as closed length, but they should be within your range.
 
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