Looking for new sharpening jig

[FrenchAccent]

Hi All,

Been into sharpening for past several years. Started with freehand-sharpening which I never got very good at.
Over a year ago, purchased a $30 clamp jig on Amazon which included very bad stones. After doing more research and tests I ended up purchasing set of Edge-Pro Aluminium Oxide stones and set of Matrix stones.

I am finally a happy camper with these 2 Edge-Pro sets and will certainly test Venev stones down the road.

I now need a new sharpening system. I am looking at Edge-Pro Apex or Professional. Also looking at HapStone M3 or V8/V8 Black. Was initially interested in V7 but it looks discontinued.
Since I already have a clamp system, I would like to get a magnetized table sharpening system this time around. I also like the modular side of HapStone. Even-though I may never upgrade the options are there and available.

Hapstone sharpening systems I am looking at seem to have all the add-ons Edge-Pro sales as optional for similar price! (No disrespect to either brand of course, just opening the conversation...) But when I look at reviewers, they all seems to stick to Edge-Pro model that have had minimal upgrade since introduced on market many many many years ago.

Is there something I am missing about Edge-Pro vs HapStone ?

Lastly for now, I cannot find any reviews about HapStone M3 and/vs V8!

Can anyone help me choose my next sharpening system.

Thank you,
AJ

 

[wade7575]

I have a TSProf K03 and if I was looking for another sharpening system or a cheaper alternative I would buy a Hapstone M3 or V8 and get the optional flipper unit and clamps so I would have the best of both worlds.

As far as why most guys seem to be using Edge Pro's I think is because they have been around for many years and are more well known,I think the Hapstones are built and versatile myself.
I don't understand why Edge Pro hasn't really done much to improve their system other then copy the Hapstone slide guide,I don't have anything against Edge Pro I just think it's to bad when a company get's a big name and following then sticks their thumb up their backside and rest's on their name.

I'm sure you will like the Venev diamond stones and I would also buy a 1K 3K and 5K Chosera stones if I were you they are great finishing stones after using diamonds.
Use aluminum oxide powder to flatten the Venev stones and use 2 or 3 different grit's per stone and finish flattening the stone at he same grit that the stone is or 1 grit lower for good result's,use Bar Keepers Friend in the gold canister to clean the Venev stones.

 

[Diemaker]

One advantage to an EP is you can get parts or accessories for it probably for life, I know they are available now for what has been made since their beginning. Oh, and made in the U.S.A.! If you got with Hapstone or TSProf you better get the accessories you want now because they do get discontinued quickly when the next models come out.

And the Slide Guide isn't a direct copy, it has several improvements over the Hapstone 3 point guide plate.

 

[Old Biker]

Hi All,

Been into sharpening for past several years. Started with freehand-sharpening which I never got very good at.
Over a year ago, purchased a $30 clamp jig on Amazon which included very bad stones. After doing more research and tests I ended up purchasing set of Edge-Pro Aluminium Oxide stones and set of Matrix stones.

I am finally a happy camper with these 2 Edge-Pro sets and will certainly test Venev stones down the road.

I now need a new sharpening system. I am looking at Edge-Pro Apex or Professional. Also looking at HapStone M3 or V8/V8 Black. Was initially interested in V7 but it looks discontinued.
Since I already have a clamp system, I would like to get a magnetized table sharpening system this time around. I also like the modular side of HapStone. Even-though I may never upgrade the options are there and available.

Hapstone sharpening systems I am looking at seem to have all the add-ons Edge-Pro sales as optional for similar price! (No disrespect to either brand of course, just opening the conversation...) But when I look at reviewers, they all seems to stick to Edge-Pro model that have had minimal upgrade since introduced on market many many many years ago.

Is there something I am missing about Edge-Pro vs HapStone ?

Lastly for now, I cannot find any reviews about HapStone M3 and/vs V8!

Can anyone help me choose my next sharpening system.

Thank you,
AJ

I bought the Hapstone V8 instead of the Edge Pro Apex because. It's al metal construction instead of plastic. (I like that extra heft, it doesn't move around as easily.) It cost less than buying the Edge Pro plus the accessories I would need, (Small knife attachment and slide guide.) I could buy a bare bones kit with out a stone bundle. I don't need any more stones, but I can't buy the Edge Pro Apex without buying some. And the stones in the bundle aren't any stones I would want if I was buying some stones.

I bought the Hapstone V8 instead of the Hapstone M3 because. By removing the outside table extensions the table makes a nice small blade table.

With the table extensions installed You have essentially a M3.

Or you can spread them for more support on a really large blade. Which adds even more versatility.

The V8 isn't without flaws. The center part of the blade support doesn't work well with small knives because of it's rounded end. You can't turn it around and use the square end because the slot is to short. Which prevents it from getting close enough to the table edge to do any good. I made my own blade support. I probably should have just lengthened the slot in the original one.

O.B.

 

[Alberta Ed]

An alternative is to go to bench stones and an angle guide, very versatile and simple. I use an ancient Buck Honemaster angle guide (no longer made) but there are several other types available.

 

[FrenchAccent]

I appreciate all the comments!

A Alberta Ed : I started with bench stones but was never great at it. The only guide I used on bench stones is to sharpen chisels and hand-planes. Never tried the knife guide as I picked-up an inexpensive sharpening system on Amazon which made sharpening more intuitive, easier to determine sharpening angles and much easier to get a very nice sharpened edge with mirror finish if necessary -Not with stones included with kit though
I do not regret moving away from bench stones and using a sharpening system. I enjoy the zen feeling of using a hand plane on wood but never got there with bench stones sharpening.

O Old Biker : I am glad you mentioned the “center part of the blade support”, it’s an issue I read about concerning Hapstone on their earlier models! Why would they come out with a brand new line of products with the same flow?
The Edge Pro “slide guide” as they call it, is very well made, thicker where it needs to be. I also never heard of Edge Pro users with blade tipping forward issue when sharpening as I read on Hapstone earlier models. On M2, they added a metal part under the blade that keeps blade stationary. The V7 seemed to have similar defect as M2. Is the V8 blade stable when sharpening ?

For information Edge Pro sales Apex or Pro models bare. One needs to call the office and ask.

I also like the practicality and portability of Edge Pro Apex. Never read any negatives about the “plastic”. It seems to hold up very well with time. Maybe easier to put away when necessary.

I checked the weights in lbs:
EP Apex: 3.0
EP Pro: 12.1
M3: 5.3
V8: 6.6
R2: 7.2

The V8 is on my short list

D Diemaker : I fully agree but Apex bare with all bells and whistles get expensive.
Hapstone seems to have a new modular line to limit the amount of spare part in the future. Good thinking professionally, although I had my eye on V7 initially. Now looking at V8 which is a totally different animal. Waiting for M3 and V8 reviews to be posted online or YouTube. Have not seen any so far.

wade7575 : I think Edge Pro has done a lot to improve their product but the parts are optional and not included upfront. If I could get an Apex fully loaded for the price of M3, I would get it!
Yes, I agree, Chosera makes great stones, have several 8”. I just do not like the mess they leave behind; same with Shapton stones. I like the Edge Pro Aluminium and even more the Matrix, they cut very well and are not messy. I suppose the Venev are similar, I look forward to testing them as well.

Bar-keepers works well. The Matrix stones clean very well with 70%-99% Isopropyl alcohol and paper towel. Again, less messy to clean as well.

I am not OCD or anything but if I can get stones that cut very well with less mess, it makes the sharpening hobby more enjoyable.

At this point, it would be V8, Apex with all necessary options or Professional.

 

[Diemaker]

I am not OCD or anything but if I can get stones that cut very well with less mess, it makes the sharpening hobby more enjoyable.

Funny how much this matters after a while. I also agree on wishing EP were more open to change, but there are upsides to it. Downside to "Made in the U.S.A." is it costs more to make it in the U.S.A., but I think the quality is there. Yeah, bit of a pet peeve.

 

[FrenchAccent]

wishing EP were more open to change

I would not say Edge Pro is not open to change, they do have quality product and add-ons.
One could hope, after many many many years in business and years after their patent expired, they would include certain options as a bare minimum, included in the current retail price. They surely know something I do not business wise.
BTW, customer service is also an important variable and both companies seem to have good reputation.

I do not think I have ever read a bad review about Edge Pro or their products!

I already have a (cheap) working sharpener that I upgraded with small parts, just want to get better quality everything and no surprise sharpener.

I appreciate everyone’s input. Will follow-up once decision has been made.

Thank you

 

[Old Biker]

I appreciate all the comments!


O Old Biker : I am glad you mentioned the “center part of the blade support”, it’s an issue I read about concerning Hapstone on their earlier models! Why would they come out with a brand new line of products with the same flow?
The Edge Pro “slide guide” as they call it, is very well made, thicker where it needs to be. I also never heard of Edge Pro users with blade tipping forward issue when sharpening as I read on Hapstone earlier models. On M2, they added a metal part under the blade that keeps blade stationary. The V7 seemed to have similar defect as M2. Is the V8 blade stable when sharpening ?

For information Edge Pro sales Apex or Pro models bare. One needs to call the office and ask.

I also like the practicality and portability of Edge Pro Apex. Never read any negatives about the “plastic”. It seems to hold up very well with time. Maybe easier to put away when necessary.

I checked the weights in lbs:
EP Apex: 3.0
EP Pro: 12.1
M3: 5.3
V8: 6.6
R2: 7.2

The V8 is on my short list

The center part of the blade support works fine for me when I'm using the whole blade support. It's when I'm sharpening a small blade like the one in my picture, and need a narrow blade support, that the rounded edge gives problems. It can be used. I have sharpened a knife that way. But you have to be very careful to hold the knife in the same position. The simple solution would be to extend the slot to 3/4 of an inch from the rounded end. That would allow the piece to be reversed when needed. I chose to make a different part, mostly just to prevent my ruining the original, if I messed something up.

I have a M2 and now the V8. I have never had any problems with the blade tipping forward when sharpening, except when I tried to use that silly metal piece. I took it off. The Hapstone magnets a pretty strong. They do a lot to prevent blade tipping, even when sharpening very narrow blades.

My first sharpener was a plastic EP copy off of Amazon. I threw away the cheap stones that came with it, and bought some EP stones to replace them. When using that plastic sharpener, it tended to walk around quite a bit. Particularly when using a course stone for reprofiling. My Hapstone sharpeners don't do that. The extra heft from all metal construction makes them feel more stable and solid. I like that. The lighter weight and portability of the plastic sounds good, but I don't find myself needing portability, in practice. But you might.

O.B.

.

 

[wade7575]

F FrenchAccent I find that when I use the Chosera stones on a guided system the mess isn't to bad and I think that's because the stones are not full bench stone size,I mainly use the 1K 3K and 5K Chosera's for finishing and I don't do a lot of pass's either.

 

[FrenchAccent]

O Old Biker
I did look at the Apex “clone”, the first things users upgrade are the suction-cups. The Apex and Prof clone versions are very flowed on many levels, Youtube videos show flows in details. One would think copying would be easier than inventing or reinventing... I guess not ))
My concern with Hapstone is that people make due with product flows. “It’s a great product but...”
If I choose the V8 I will surely improve the center piece as you suggested. It’s like driving a car with one square wheel....
After all the good options HapStone added to their product line, it would have been an easy fix to replace the center piece!

The only negative comments I hear about the Apex is the price and having to pay for upgrades that should be included in the initial price. Otherwise, as mentioned prior, I have not read any negative comments about their products.

I already own a cheap sharpening system that I tweaked. I just want something that allows me to concentrate on my sharpening skills without having to worry about the hardware needing to be modified or improved. Adding optional parts is different than having to take out the tool box.

I will call HapStone distributor and Edge Pro before choosing my next sharpening system.

wade7575
My favorite Chosera bench stones are the 800 and 3k. As much as the EP Matrix seem expensive on paper, they have the reputation of very low wear, low maintenance, no mess to speak of and cut amazingly well. I was wowed at 2.3k and 4K very nice mirror finish. I never go past 4K anymore.

I may test 1 or 2 Chosera stones on new sharpening system moving forward but only splash-and-go is they exist, no more water stones for me.

If I was a professional sharpener I may have a different opinion about mess water-stones generate. Just like a mechanic that has not choice but to deal with grease, oil and dirt when working on a car. No disrespect intended to any profession of course.

AJ

 

[wade7575]

F FrenchAccent I just soak my Chosera stones for maybe 4 to 5 minutes and that's it,I know they say they are a splash and go stone but I seem to get better result's that way,you won't find the same mess with water stones on a guided system as much as you do sharpening freehand I just dip my fingers in a tub of water and apply the water ono the stone with my fingers.

I also like the metallic CBN stones a lot and they do seem to give a fairly well refined edge for what they are,they won't work as well as a Matrix stone or Venev but I find using the metallic CBN to do the heavy lifting and then cleaning up the edge with a Venev or Chosera stone is really fast and easy,I mainly use just the 80 120 240 400 and 2K metallic CBN stones and out of those stones I use the 120 400 and 2K the most.

 

[777 Edge]

Hi All,

Been into sharpening for past several years. Started with freehand-sharpening which I never got very good at.
Over a year ago, purchased a $30 clamp jig on Amazon which included very bad stones. After doing more research and tests I ended up purchasing set of Edge-Pro Aluminium Oxide stones and set of Matrix stones.

I am finally a happy camper with these 2 Edge-Pro sets and will certainly test Venev stones down the road.

I now need a new sharpening system. I am looking at Edge-Pro Apex or Professional. Also looking at HapStone M3 or V8/V8 Black. Was initially interested in V7 but it looks discontinued.
Since I already have a clamp system, I would like to get a magnetized table sharpening system this time around. I also like the modular side of HapStone. Even-though I may never upgrade the options are there and available.

Hapstone sharpening systems I am looking at seem to have all the add-ons Edge-Pro sales as optional for similar price! (No disrespect to either brand of course, just opening the conversation...) But when I look at reviewers, they all seems to stick to Edge-Pro model that have had minimal upgrade since introduced on market many many many years ago.

Is there something I am missing about Edge-Pro vs HapStone ?

Lastly for now, I cannot find any reviews about HapStone M3 and/vs V8!

Can anyone help me choose my next sharpening system.

Thank you,
AJ

Hi AJ,

If you have a 3D printer at home, or access to one then feel free to download my design and make yourself one of my sharpeners. It does everything you need.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4135236

I have most of the fixed angle systems, including various Hapstone models and Edge Pro models (plus many, many more). Yes, I know I have a bit of a sharpening addiction...don't judge.

I found that I jump back and forth between my systems to use the best part of each of them, depending on what I need to do, so I decided a couple years ago to design my own system that can do everything I needed.

 

[FrenchAccent]

@wade7575
Wow... Thought Matrix stones were expensive, unless I am looking at wrong product CBN stones are even more expensive
I do the heavy lifting with the CKTG lower grit diamond plates ($20 per) and EdgePro Aluminium Oxide set ($17 per mounted and $9 without aluminium base).
I noticed I get better result with Aluminium Oxide stones on lower quality steel. For upper-end steel... Matrix all the way!

@777-edge
You just gave me another option to look into. Much appreciated!!!
I am fairly technical oriented and have been looking 3D printing from afar up to now, but this could be my way into this technology.
-What type of printer would you suggest?
-How long would it take to build such a contraption?
-Can one rent to 3D printing for just one project.
-How would you compare your 3D sharpener to EdgePro Apex ?

This is really a treat... Thank you !!!


@Everyone
I contacted EdgeStone to get pricing on Apex and Prof without stones. The Apex with all necessary options & shipping (without scissors attachment) comes to the same price as HapStone V8 Black model. Professional is out of my price range!

So, the question I have, for similar price would you all go with HapStone V8 Black fully loaded model (magnets, no clamps) and it’s several flows or Apex fully loaded, older technology but a work horse reputation?

For the little story and to emphasis what I wrote prior, watch a video on YouTube that looked more like an infomercial than a review about the R2. When sharpening, the whole unit tips/tilts forward if user does not hold base with left hand. For the price it’s totally ridiculous. I also read HapStone sends a heavier base attachment for R2 but it makes unit even heavier! Their new modular line may look good but has design flows.
Hope the V8 does not have the same tilt issue, since it is built from same design modular concept.

AJ

 

[777 Edge]

My pleasure AJ. I think you'll like having a 3D printer, once you have one you'll forever wonder why you waited so long.

My sharpener has been printed on countless printers, but the 3 printers I can confirm work well, is:
1 - My own "Cetus Mk3" - https://www.cetus3d.com/
2 - A good friend's "Creality Ender 3 Pro" - https://www.creality3dofficial.com/products/creality-ender-3-pro-3d-printer
3 - Probably the world's most popular printer with great upgradeability is the "Prusa i3 MK3S+"- https://www.prusa3d.com/original-prusa-i3-mk3/

The Prusa is the more expensive of the 3, but it is incredibly popular, open source and apparently lots of good support. I'm looking at getting myself a Prusa for my next printer. The Prusa also has the option of upgrading to multi-color printing, which is pretty cool.

Time wise, it depends on many factors and settings how long the print will take. For me, it takes about 9 hours to print my biggest part (the base of the sharpener). The smaller parts are quicker. The nice thing is, you can start your print and just let it go through the night while you sleep.

Parts preparation and assembly of my sharpener will not take too long, maybe an hour if I would take a guess.

Not sure about your question on renting 3D printers, I have not looked into it.

Regarding your question about the EP Apex vs mine, there is no comparison - my sharpener works a lot better and will give you a lot more options.

You mention the Hapstone R2 tilting forward, I don't have an R2 (I have a M2, V7 and R1) so I don't know all the quirks of the R2 but it may actually be a Positive thing for it to tilt forward a bit with too much pressure. It would force you to use lighter pressure when sharpening, which is the right way to sharpen. The only time where only a little bit more pressure is needed, is when re-grinding your bevel or repairing damage. Most people use way too much pressure, they don't let the stones do the work on the steel.

 

[FrenchAccent]

@777-edge
I really appreciate the list of 3D printers and information. It will give me a head start in my research to get into the technology.

I always smile when HapStone users give a positive twist to their product defects. It means they like their product even with its flows
It’s like me saying, when I drive my brand new car, the driver door tends to open when I go over 55 MPH. But it’s ok because it allows me to know when I am speeding so I do not get stopped and get a ticket ))

I like the idea that you tested and used many brands of sharpening systems, build you own design - and sharing it. Designing a better solution is always very gratifying.

Will look around to see if I can find someone with a 3D printer as it will take me a certain amount of time to research and get into it.

I suppose other hardware need to be purchased as well for your sharpener, anything that is not plastic. What would an estimate cost of building your design?

I think that would be a fun project to take on.

AJ

 

[777 Edge]

I have a list of parts required in the description of my designs on Thingiverse.

It's only some basic parts, like neodymium magnets, screws & thumb screws, brass threaded inserts (that you melt into the plastic), three 8mm steel rods, a spring with more than 8mm inside diameter, some rubberised tape (for grip) and some super glue. That's about it. All out, I would guess $20 worth of non-3D printed parts. Just a guess, depending on if you buy screws, magnets and inserts individually or as part of kits.

 

[FrenchAccent]

@777-Edge
Took a look at your 3D thread last night. Very detailed and comprehensive. Also found the necessary parts list you mentioned above. Will dig in further and keep you updated.
Glad I already own a sharpener, this project will take some time to come to fruition.
Keep you updated and Thank you again for sharing

 

[777 Edge]

@777-Edge
Took a look at your 3D thread last night. Very detailed and comprehensive. Also found the necessary parts list you mentioned above. Will dig in further and keep you updated.
Glad I already own a sharpener, this project will take some time to come to fruition.
Keep you updated and Thank you again for sharing

My pleasure!
PM me if you have any questions, either here on this forum, or on Thingiverse.

 

[FrenchAccent]

Hi All,
Sometimes research, patience and respect is rewarded. Found an opportunity I could not refuse.

Purchased an Edge Pro Apex with no stones.

I just could not find the heart to buy HapStone products with the flows I found during my research. I just wanted a sharpener that worked!

The 3D solution is still on the table as a project but it will take some time to put together and find a 3D printer I can use.

I appreciate everyone’s input on this thread. Happy sharpening to all!

Thank you,
AJ