Looking for new sharpening jig

Great news AJ! You'll like your Edge Pro Apex.

Now that you'll be getting your Edge Pro, I have some major upgrades and free designs for you for your Edge Pro Apex too. A magnetic table, 3-point guide, vertical knife support, scissors clamp, large blade attachment, chisel attachment and a Fine Tuning adapter. All works with and designed for the Edge Pro Apex. I designed all of this based on my system, but for guys who already have the Apex.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4076797

If you're only interested in a magnet system for the Apex, here is my design for that also:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4542153

Enjoy!
 
777 Edge 777 Edge
Your are Santa in February :)

I still need to find and look into 3D printers but that is welcome news. I will surely build your complete design once I have access or/and buy a 3D printer.

I really appreciate the follow-up!
AJ
 
FrenchAccent said:
@wade7575
Wow... Thought Matrix stones were expensive, unless I am looking at wrong product CBN stones are even more expensive
I do the heavy lifting with the CKTG lower grit diamond plates ($20 per) and EdgePro Aluminium Oxide set ($17 per mounted and $9 without aluminium base).
I noticed I get better result with Aluminium Oxide stones on lower quality steel. For upper-end steel... Matrix all the way!

@777-edge
You just gave me another option to look into. Much appreciated!!!
I am fairly technical oriented and have been looking 3D printing from afar up to now, but this could be my way into this technology.
-What type of printer would you suggest?
-How long would it take to build such a contraption?
-Can one rent to 3D printing for just one project.
-How would you compare your 3D sharpener to EdgePro Apex ?

This is really a treat... Thank you !!!


@Everyone
I contacted EdgeStone to get pricing on Apex and Prof without stones. The Apex with all necessary options & shipping (without scissors attachment) comes to the same price as HapStone V8 Black model. Professional is out of my price range!

So, the question I have, for similar price would you all go with HapStone V8 Black fully loaded model (magnets, no clamps) and it’s several flows or Apex fully loaded, older technology but a work horse reputation?

For the little story and to emphasis what I wrote prior, watch a video on YouTube that looked more like an infomercial than a review about the R2. When sharpening, the whole unit tips/tilts forward if user does not hold base with left hand. For the price it’s totally ridiculous. I also read HapStone sends a heavier base attachment for R2 but it makes unit even heavier! Their new modular line may look good but has design flows.
Hope the V8 does not have the same tilt issue, since it is built from same design modular concept.

AJ
Click to expand...
The to watch when using electro plated diamond plates rather then metallic CBN or stones like the Venev and Matrix stones at lower grits is that the electro plated diamond plates tend to remove steel faster and leave deeper grooves which means more metal is wasted trying to refine the edge.

The metallic CBN stones wear a lot longer then most stones and that's why thy cost so much more.
 
777 Edge said:
Great news AJ! You'll like your Edge Pro Apex.

free designs for you for your Edge Pro Apex too. A magnetic table, 3-point guide,
Click to expand...

I'll throw this in for those who are on the fence: The three point guide and the magnet are excellent improvements to the original product. Get 'em!

The magnet wasn't originally available for older Professional models, but EdgePro will now change out the table on older ones.
 
RustyIron said:
I'll throw this in for those who are on the fence: The three point guide and the magnet are excellent improvements to the original product. Get 'em!

The magnet wasn't originally available for older Professional models, but EdgePro will now change out the table on older ones.
Click to expand...

Agree.
 
wade7575 wade7575
I did read about wear concerning lower grit Matrix stones. Only purchased higher grit Matrix stones, 650, 1100, 2300, 4000. They are supposed to wear 0.02” per year on average use (what ever that means) which is very reasonable and should last a long time.

For now I use EdgePro lower grit Aluminum Oxide and CKTG Diamond 140. Fairly inexpensive. EdgePro Aluminium $9 (no plate support) and CKTG $19.
I will take a closer look at lower grit at Metallic CBN moving forward...

Thank you
AJ
 
@Rustyiron
Fully agree! I feel the Apex should have these options included in the price and a few inexpensive other options as well.
The 3 points Apex guide is also much better made than HapStone’s.

I feel in 2021, the Apex as it is sold, is an “unfinished” product. Like a car with no A/C. Can one deal with no A/C? Yes one can. But at what cost of comfort.

Same reasoning for the magnets. Not to mention the guide stops that help restrict forward and backward motion. Although that is an easy fix at the local hardware store.

Edge Stone sales a round magnet that can be lowered and disconnected from blade with ease. The one sold by CKTG is square, measures 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/4 and from what I understand 3 or 4 can be installed under the Apex. I was thinking of using 3 magnet, 1 on each extremity and one in the middle.
Some users complain the CKTG magnet is not strong enough, but I feel too strong of a magnet could also be a detriment when having to (re)move the blade.

I also found 1/2x1/2 N52 magnet online that have 26lbs pull that would hold blade maybe too well.

From Apex user’s experience, how many magnet are necessary and how strong should magnet be ?
 
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FrenchAccent said:
@Rustyiron
Fully agree! I feel the Apex should have these options included in the price and a few inexpensive other as well. The 3 pointll Apex guide is much better than HapStone.
I feel in 2021, the Apex as it is sold is an “unfinished” product. Like a car with no A/C.
Can one deal with no A/C? Yes one can. But at what cost of comfort.
Click to expand...

I will disagree somewhat. The Apex still works as well as it ever did with the bare bones model, and with the right abrasive, sharpening is still sharpening.

Not everyone will necessarily want to pay for the "upgrades", (I did and have), and can still get a very viable sharpening system without a huge outlay.

Obviously, if the enhancements were added to the base system, Ben and Cody would have have had to raise the price to maintain whatever their acceptable margin is.

So, there's an argument to be made on both sides of the equation, in my view.

Cars come with A/C? (just kidding)
 
If you use too much pressure or let the swarf build up then you will have excess wear but otherwise there is very little wear even with the coarsest Matrix stones. The swarf is loose abrasive so it in effect dresses them while sharpening. I tracked the wear on the set of Matrix stones EP uses, I measure them once a year. Cody has said a few times that they sharpen an average of 35-50+ knives a week. While they have many stones to use they use the Matrix stones the most. After the first few years a few extra stones found their way into the sharpening area so my measurements became a little less accurate. The newer stones didn't get too much use and were later weeded out. Not perfect but good enough to give an idea of how well the Matrix stones wear. How well they are taken care of is a huge variable, and the rate seen by EP could be significantly reduced with better care.

Here are some raw #s from 12/10/17 to 6/26/20:
250 grit .2555" to .249" = .0026" per year
1100 grit .2485" to .245" = .0014" per year

The 2300s and 4000s have been around longer so from 5/2016 to 6/26/20:
2300 grit .256" to .240" = .0039" per year. It would be less if they didn't over dress them. Cody did confess that they dress them much more often than needed because they like how they feel after a fresh dress. They always have a dressing plate next to the sharpening area so it's real handy.
4000 grit .255" to .246" = .0022" per year. Less if they were not over dressed.

They rarely use the 80 so there are no numbers for it and I couldn't find the original 650 the last times I measured them.

Not everyone sharpens the same so that is why the Apex is optioned out vs packaged. Remember, these are both Made In America and better quality so the cost of making them is higher. The quality part is my opinion from my experience with the TSProf and Hapstone machines I have played with, so if you disagree blame me. Not everyone likes magnets or the 3 point guide plates, baffles me but true, so not a good idea to include them if you don't want them. I really haven't kept up with the changes to the Apex but I think they now use a spring to hold the stones instead of threading the knob and there are a few other small improvements. The plus side to this "stability" is if you finally decide you want one of the newer accessories for your 30 year old Pro or 26 year old Apex, or parts, you can get them, no problem. How far back can you go with Hapstone or TSProf for parts or accessories?

I find you want to keep your magnets as close to the front of the machine as possible. The widest magnets I like are 1/2". You can get a 1/2"x1" in the Apex or 1/4"x1-3/4", I like the 1/2x1"x 1/4" thick myself. Because the blade table is 1/8" thick I don't think you can get too strong of a magnet for the Apex. When figuring out how much pull a magnet has you have to know if that is shielded or not? Shielding a magnet increases its pull by nearly 3 fold.

I do not like the end stops as they just get in the way.

PS, I despise A/C in a car. We still have our 91 Honda CRX Si without A/C. My wife constantly complains about it but I love that car and have made it clear that we are never selling it. Some things are better kept simple. I also like manual transmissions.
 
@diemaker
Excellent, detailed and very valuable information concerning stone wear experience. Matrix for me makes sharpening experience even more enjoyable. Glad they will last a long time.
As far as sharpeners options are concerned, I suppose this is the reason HapStone created the same plate-form for all their new line of product.

Great feedback about magnets as well. Will take your advice on the subject.

PS: I like manual transmission as well when I go back to Europe. However, it hinders the ability to eat, txt, drink and drive at the same time:) (Joking of course)
Edit: When I travel to the UK, I expressly ask the rental company for an auto-transmission for first few days. Learning to drive on the right side of the car and the other side of the road requires concentration!
 
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FrenchAccent said:
wade7575 wade7575
I did read about wear concerning lower grit Matrix stones. Only purchased higher grit Matrix stones, 650, 1100, 2300, 4000. They are supposed to wear 0.02” per year on average use (what ever that means) which is very reasonable and should last a long time.

For now I use EdgePro lower grit Aluminum Oxide and CKTG Diamond 140. Fairly inexpensive. EdgePro Aluminium $9 (no plate support) and CKTG $19.
I will take a closer look at lower grit at Metallic CBN moving forward...

Thank you
AJ
Click to expand...
When it comes to concern about diamonds wearing metal away fast I would only worry about them if they are an electroplated diamond plate and are in the grit range of 120 to 400 grit,DMT's don't wear metal away to fast no matter what the grit is.

The Atoma diamond plates are great but they really tear threw like a buzzsaw.
 
Have you looked into a tormek? It is an extremely modular and versatile system. They are expensive but if you have more than just knives to sharpen they are definitely worth it. I use it for chisels and lathe gouges as well as knives with great success.
 
Tormek is very well known but I feel it is more for professionals or avid sharpener hobbyists. Recently saw a Wen wheel contraption -One of Tormek less expensive competitors. These machines are in a different league of their own.
One also needs space for the unit and stones...

AJ
 
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Hi All,
Wanted to share an interesting solution I watch on YouTube for adding magnet(s) to Edge Pro Apex.
To start, I want to apologies for posting a video that has crude language but I thought the solution was interesting and seemed to fit the Apex fairly well. Best of all, it is free!

Video1- Using mechanical has drive magnets for Apex:

Video2: How to remove magnets from a mechanical hard drive:

Based on magnets size/length/thickness, it seems to fit the Apex fairly well. I would suggest using scotch tape instead of glue to start, making sure it works with small and larger knives.
Coincidently, I have several older hard drives I kept for no reason, will hack out the magnets and come back with result.

AJ
 
Hi All,

Would like to follow-up on Apex magnet solution.

I purchase the Apex from Edge Pro directly after all, without stones since I had already purchased their 2 sets of Aluminum Oxide and Matrix stones.

I took apart several old hard drives and extracted 2 magnets from each. Some hard drive magnets are easier to extract than others.

3 HD magnets are more than adequate to hold knife to Apex. I used Gorilla double sided tape since I did not know if I would need to test magnet strength and have to make modifications. With 3 magnets help with double sided tape the knifes hold just right, magnet is not too strong and knife hold perfectly on it’s own.

Hard drive magnets seem to all be oval shape and take most of the space in the cavity under the Apex knife platform. Used larger one first and 2 smaller ones. (Some magnets snapped in half trying to pry them out. I tried heating the metal part to loosen the glue but magnet are prone to losing their magnetism when heated to much over 80°C). So, I basically used the video above pliers solution to take them out. A few snapped in half, their were thinner in size.

Magnets are not clamps so both hand may still be necessary to sharpen knife but certainly more comfortably than without magnets.

I have not yet tried to sharpen with magnets but read magnets can also be a problem, attracting steel shavings and potentially scratching the knife. Sharpeners beware, tape-up you knifes!

On a side note, I was positively suprised by Apex built durability and finish. Glad I chose the genuine product.

Voilà for the magnets solution. Will surely also purchase the 3 prong slide, remove the suction-cups and screw the unit onto a flat piece of wood after applying some type of water resistant treatment.

AJ
 
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