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the hak would most likely be a violation under the metal knuckles definition.
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Los Angeles Knife Laws
- Thread starter gutter_mike
- Start date
the hak would most likely be a violation under the metal knuckles definition.
Yeah, that seems probable to me too! I was surprised to read that not everyone shares that opinion. Sounds like the wrap can be beat in court, but it's not worth going to jail and paying legal fees to find out.
How about a kydex sheath that holds your folder already openned?
How about a kydex sheath that holds your folder already openned?
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- Oct 29, 2005
- Messages
- 19,834
a folder locked in the open position would violate the 12020 pc section as well as the muni/county fixed blade sections.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2006
- Messages
- 1,188
I understand that under state law a folder has to be carried completely closed.
A sheath that mainains the folder, even partially opened is in violation of the law.
A sheath that mainains the folder, even partially opened is in violation of the law.
Hi my name is David and I'm a first time poster here. The forums here seem cool and the people seem very knowledgeable.
Let me start off by saying that I realize this is an "old" thread, but my questions are relevant to this specific topic. Also I have done a lot of research both here and on other sites but I still cannot find any clear answers to my questions anywhere. I would start a new thread but the volume of CA/Los Angeles knife law threads here is already over saturated and perplexing. It is one single topic, so there should be one single thread imho.
My questions revolve around being in Los Angeles county and wanting a knife to carry when I go hiking and camping. I also go into Malibu and want to camp in the Channel Islands - if allowed - and Catalina Island. I thought a decent looking knife to have for camping and emergency situations would be the Becker Companion. I'm sure there are better knives but their marketing has worked on me
From what I have read it seems like that would be a illegal knife to have in LA County. It has a 5-1/4" blade length and is a fixed blade. So I can't cary it concealed or in open carry from what I read (Jim March's article, and other info here, there, everywhere).
Does this law also apply to campers? Can I keep the knife in my pack and be OK legally?
My next question is about hatchets.
Can I open carry a hatchet at a camp site? Can it be attached to my pack, or stored inside my pack and still be OK?
The law seems to not mention hatchets which is pretty hilarious considering how equivalent they are to knives in terms of lethality. If it is mentioned in the law I must have missed that section completely.
For hiking and camping I would prefer a fixed blade as it is feels more sturdy. I was a cook for several years and a knife just feels more durable to me if the metal goes from tip to hilt. I know that I cannot carry a fixed blade in open carry in LA which is ridiculous imo. So for Griffith Park and many LA hiking trails that may have unexpected animal and human predators I will have to depend on a folding knife. It feels like in Los Angeles county I am not allowed to carry anything too useful for an emergency.
Finally can I mail order knives that may not be CA/LA legal to carry? Is that a felony to order one and have it delivered? What if I just have them in my home? Is that OK?
Thanks in advance for any constructive replies. Please no links to other threads on these forums as I have already waded through most of them only to find unsatisfactory answers. Besides considering the name of this thread these questions should be posted here. Also in 2012 maybe some laws changed.
Let me start off by saying that I realize this is an "old" thread, but my questions are relevant to this specific topic. Also I have done a lot of research both here and on other sites but I still cannot find any clear answers to my questions anywhere. I would start a new thread but the volume of CA/Los Angeles knife law threads here is already over saturated and perplexing. It is one single topic, so there should be one single thread imho.
My questions revolve around being in Los Angeles county and wanting a knife to carry when I go hiking and camping. I also go into Malibu and want to camp in the Channel Islands - if allowed - and Catalina Island. I thought a decent looking knife to have for camping and emergency situations would be the Becker Companion. I'm sure there are better knives but their marketing has worked on me
From what I have read it seems like that would be a illegal knife to have in LA County. It has a 5-1/4" blade length and is a fixed blade. So I can't cary it concealed or in open carry from what I read (Jim March's article, and other info here, there, everywhere). Does this law also apply to campers? Can I keep the knife in my pack and be OK legally?
My next question is about hatchets.
Can I open carry a hatchet at a camp site? Can it be attached to my pack, or stored inside my pack and still be OK?
The law seems to not mention hatchets which is pretty hilarious considering how equivalent they are to knives in terms of lethality. If it is mentioned in the law I must have missed that section completely.
For hiking and camping I would prefer a fixed blade as it is feels more sturdy. I was a cook for several years and a knife just feels more durable to me if the metal goes from tip to hilt. I know that I cannot carry a fixed blade in open carry in LA which is ridiculous imo. So for Griffith Park and many LA hiking trails that may have unexpected animal and human predators I will have to depend on a folding knife. It feels like in Los Angeles county I am not allowed to carry anything too useful for an emergency.
Finally can I mail order knives that may not be CA/LA legal to carry? Is that a felony to order one and have it delivered? What if I just have them in my home? Is that OK?
Thanks in advance for any constructive replies. Please no links to other threads on these forums as I have already waded through most of them only to find unsatisfactory answers. Besides considering the name of this thread these questions should be posted here. Also in 2012 maybe some laws changed.
Hello and welcome to the forums!
I'm not a moderator or have any sort of authority on this website, but I think it would have been fine to start a new thread. Happens all the time and nobody seems to mind. This thread is 5 years old, some of the laws have changed and some of the users no longer even post. So for this post I will disregard all the previous discussion and just answer directly.
Anyway, to the legal stuff. The LA county statute people talk about all the time is Chapter 13.62.
http://search.municode.com/html/16274/_DATA/TITLE13/Chapter_13_62_CARRYING_KNIVES_.html
This is the law that prohibits "carry on his person, in plain view" any knife with a blade that is 3 or more inches long. The part most people seem to forget is 13.62.030, "Exemptions to chapter applicability." It states:
Outdoor activities like camping, hiking, bush-craft, whittling, and cooking fall within "lawful recreation." Without this exception they'd be handing out citations left and right to everyone trying to grill a steak, dress game or fillet fish. Hatchets, being tools, would be equally exempt unless carried with a non-tool purpose.
As a general rule, you should always have an plausible explanation ready for the possibility that you are questioned by a police officer. Never, ever say anything about "defense." Even if that really is why you have your knife, never say that. It's a long story, but cops hate that. Has to do with the psychology of being in law enforcement, and it will make them distrust you and try to find an excuse to cite you or take your blade. Hatchets are for chopping wood. The Becker is for fish/cooking.
Lastly, regarding ordering knives that are not legal to carry, that is categorically legal in any state. If the law makes it illegal to carry and says nothing else, that is all it does. It has no effect on the right to own them or conduct commerce with them. Those are separate matters. There are laws that control the commerce of knives in existence, but they specifically are written for that purpose. Best example I can think of for Cali is switchblades. You can own, buy, sell and carry switchblades with blades under 2 inches long. If the blade is longer, then it is illegal to for anyone to sell them in the state or to carry them, but it is still legal to own them at home. You would just have to travel to another state where switchblades are legal to sell and then bring it back with you to be in full compliance with the laws.
I'm not a moderator or have any sort of authority on this website, but I think it would have been fine to start a new thread. Happens all the time and nobody seems to mind. This thread is 5 years old, some of the laws have changed and some of the users no longer even post. So for this post I will disregard all the previous discussion and just answer directly.
Anyway, to the legal stuff. The LA county statute people talk about all the time is Chapter 13.62.
http://search.municode.com/html/16274/_DATA/TITLE13/Chapter_13_62_CARRYING_KNIVES_.html
This is the law that prohibits "carry on his person, in plain view" any knife with a blade that is 3 or more inches long. The part most people seem to forget is 13.62.030, "Exemptions to chapter applicability." It states:
emphasis added
Outdoor activities like camping, hiking, bush-craft, whittling, and cooking fall within "lawful recreation." Without this exception they'd be handing out citations left and right to everyone trying to grill a steak, dress game or fillet fish. Hatchets, being tools, would be equally exempt unless carried with a non-tool purpose.
As a general rule, you should always have an plausible explanation ready for the possibility that you are questioned by a police officer. Never, ever say anything about "defense." Even if that really is why you have your knife, never say that. It's a long story, but cops hate that. Has to do with the psychology of being in law enforcement, and it will make them distrust you and try to find an excuse to cite you or take your blade. Hatchets are for chopping wood. The Becker is for fish/cooking.
Lastly, regarding ordering knives that are not legal to carry, that is categorically legal in any state. If the law makes it illegal to carry and says nothing else, that is all it does. It has no effect on the right to own them or conduct commerce with them. Those are separate matters. There are laws that control the commerce of knives in existence, but they specifically are written for that purpose. Best example I can think of for Cali is switchblades. You can own, buy, sell and carry switchblades with blades under 2 inches long. If the blade is longer, then it is illegal to for anyone to sell them in the state or to carry them, but it is still legal to own them at home. You would just have to travel to another state where switchblades are legal to sell and then bring it back with you to be in full compliance with the laws.
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Oh, thank you sooo much! You are too awesome!
Boy I have been asking and asking with no feedback lol I really appreciate the time you took to answer my questions. Having an open carry fixed blad while hiking might be tough to explain without a pack or other gear you could use with it (e.g. cutting board, food, fishing line, tinder, rope). So for day hikes i'll probably buy a nice folder. Still knowing I can have a Becker and hatchet for camping is really good to know. Being able to purchase knives online and not worrying about if I am breaking the law is great news as well! All around everything sounds great! haha I'm literally laughing.
Growing up all around (ND, GA, ID, FL) and camping everywhere I lived left a lasting impression. I'd hate to stop just because I wouldn't feel secure, especially in a survival (i.e. I get lost - it's happened before lol) situation, without a good knife. It's a critical tool to have. Without one, well I hope you are awesome at flint knapping.
Thanks again for you time in answering my questions!
Boy I have been asking and asking with no feedback lol I really appreciate the time you took to answer my questions. Having an open carry fixed blad while hiking might be tough to explain without a pack or other gear you could use with it (e.g. cutting board, food, fishing line, tinder, rope). So for day hikes i'll probably buy a nice folder. Still knowing I can have a Becker and hatchet for camping is really good to know. Being able to purchase knives online and not worrying about if I am breaking the law is great news as well! All around everything sounds great! haha I'm literally laughing.
Growing up all around (ND, GA, ID, FL) and camping everywhere I lived left a lasting impression. I'd hate to stop just because I wouldn't feel secure, especially in a survival (i.e. I get lost - it's happened before lol) situation, without a good knife. It's a critical tool to have. Without one, well I hope you are awesome at flint knapping.
Thanks again for you time in answering my questions!
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2011
- Messages
- 155
after reading this thread I feel lucky to live in a county where you could carry a fixed blade on your belt and the police don't say anything about it.
LA County has some ridiculous knife laws, I think it has something to do with all the gang activity,and its LA's fault we have tough gun laws in Cali.
LA County has some ridiculous knife laws, I think it has something to do with all the gang activity,and its LA's fault we have tough gun laws in Cali.
In Los Angeles and also California generally.....I understand the rules as they apply to fixed blade knives on the person (concealed or open). How about if I have a small duffel in my car (usually back seat...but could also be in rear area...it's an SUV) in which I keep all kinds of "outdoor" stuff (I hike, bike....etc. in the mountains all the time). Included in this bag is a big hunting knife (10") in its sheath. It's not really concealed, sometimes the bag is zipped, sometimes not.... I vERY MUCH like it there as a "just in case something F'd up happens" defensive item. Just good to know I've got something on my side, in the rare event something crazy happens.
Another variation would be a fixed blade knife in the "trunk"?
What is the law as it relates to those setups (in a duffel bag in the backseat, rear area...or in trunk), in CA...in Los Angeles??
Thanks!
Another variation would be a fixed blade knife in the "trunk"?
What is the law as it relates to those setups (in a duffel bag in the backseat, rear area...or in trunk), in CA...in Los Angeles??
Thanks!
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lomez,
Both state and LA County law on knives contain the phrase "carry on his person" or similar language. This means that the knife must be either attached to your body or within easy arm's reach. Packed up in a duffel or in the trunk is neither (unless the duffel is in the passenger seat and open at the top with the handle in easy reach). If such a thing were illegal "prima facie," it would make it illegal for a variety of occupations to function (such as chefs, carpenters, electricians, forest rangers and even boy scouts).
Furthermore, there's only three reasons a cop should be rifling through your duffel or trunk:
1. You committed a more serious crime and so he/she has a search warrant.
2. You're under arrest for another crime and the car is being searched as incident to that arrest.
3. You're dumb enough to consent to a search when the cop has no probable cause and asks you if he can search your car. Always say no even if they try to psychologically manipulate you by saying it "makes you look like you're hiding something." It's a bluff.
Both state and LA County law on knives contain the phrase "carry on his person" or similar language. This means that the knife must be either attached to your body or within easy arm's reach. Packed up in a duffel or in the trunk is neither (unless the duffel is in the passenger seat and open at the top with the handle in easy reach). If such a thing were illegal "prima facie," it would make it illegal for a variety of occupations to function (such as chefs, carpenters, electricians, forest rangers and even boy scouts).
Furthermore, there's only three reasons a cop should be rifling through your duffel or trunk:
1. You committed a more serious crime and so he/she has a search warrant.
2. You're under arrest for another crime and the car is being searched as incident to that arrest.
3. You're dumb enough to consent to a search when the cop has no probable cause and asks you if he can search your car. Always say no even if they try to psychologically manipulate you by saying it "makes you look like you're hiding something." It's a bluff.
Thank You Glistam.....and no, I would never fall the old "you don't mind if we search do you?" ....or "we gotta search....that's fine with you right?" nonsense from LE. I just smile and say nothing....make them stumble and stammer, and call their own bluff.....all without me saying a word. :jerkit:
It's crazy though......how in CA, having a 10" hunting knife in a zipped duffel in the back seat is perfectly legal.....meanwhile:
The "Possession" of a club or baton is illegal: (according to CA PC 12020 section A, 1)" 12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:" ......."(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag."
Probably need to focus in on the legal definition of "possession", but I'm sure anywhere in your car is in legal fact "possession". Ridiculous....but typical.
It's crazy though......how in CA, having a 10" hunting knife in a zipped duffel in the back seat is perfectly legal.....meanwhile:
The "Possession" of a club or baton is illegal: (according to CA PC 12020 section A, 1)" 12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:" ......."(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag."
Probably need to focus in on the legal definition of "possession", but I'm sure anywhere in your car is in legal fact "possession". Ridiculous....but typical.
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"Baton? Nope, don't have anything like that. Just have my old walking stick here."
"Are you disabled?"
"Are you my doctor? No? Then I'm afraid that's protected health information. Are we done here?"
btw it's PC 22210 now as of the first of the year. I was recently listening to a guy from my wife's law firm (local counsel in LA, here on business), says he could beat a charge under that statute with his eyes closed due to some critical flaw in it. I'll have to ask him to clarify next time he's around.
"Are you disabled?"
"Are you my doctor? No? Then I'm afraid that's protected health information. Are we done here?"
btw it's PC 22210 now as of the first of the year. I was recently listening to a guy from my wife's law firm (local counsel in LA, here on business), says he could beat a charge under that statute with his eyes closed due to some critical flaw in it. I'll have to ask him to clarify next time he's around.