The other day a friend of mine was hunting in flooded woods. He got disoriented and it took him a couple of hours to get out during which time he got his jacket arms wet(he was wearing waders). He was hunting in the a.m. My ? is, what if he had been hunting in the p.m. and it got dark before he could get out?If you decide to stay put for the night, What do you do for shelter and fire when you are in knee to waist deep water with no dry ground to get to and your jacket sleeves are wet? Even if you had survival kit,how would you do shelter and fire?
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Lost in woods
- Thread starter gumdoc
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 7, 1999
- Messages
- 6,651
Hi GumDoc...
Good question...
The pros here can answer that for you...
I would say,, get out of the water as much or fast as you can.. Even in waders,,if the weather is cold,, you will loose body heat through them,,no matter how warm they are...
Keep yourself moving will help you build heat,,but if you can't get ahead of the cold,,you may be in trouble...
This would also be true for someone, who has fallen overboard,,or boat has sank,, whatever..Do exercises in the water to build body heat...
That's the best answer I can give you...
The boys should be able to help you out better I'm sure...
ttyle Eric...
------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!
Good question...
The pros here can answer that for you...
I would say,, get out of the water as much or fast as you can.. Even in waders,,if the weather is cold,, you will loose body heat through them,,no matter how warm they are...
Keep yourself moving will help you build heat,,but if you can't get ahead of the cold,,you may be in trouble...
This would also be true for someone, who has fallen overboard,,or boat has sank,, whatever..Do exercises in the water to build body heat...
That's the best answer I can give you...
The boys should be able to help you out better I'm sure...
ttyle Eric...
------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!
I would definitely try to build something to get me OUT of the water. One idea would be to carry a rolled up HAMMOCK in a pocket. This would at least give me a start.
Ideally, I would say to built a platform out of tree limbs attached to a tree or two. THis would be for both getting the person out of the water and building a fire on.
If the platform can't be built big enough for both the person and fire, then a small one for a fire along with the hammock could keep a person drier and warmer.
Hope this inspires some thoughts and more comments!
Good luck!
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Plainsman
primitiveguy@hotmail.com
Ideally, I would say to built a platform out of tree limbs attached to a tree or two. THis would be for both getting the person out of the water and building a fire on.
If the platform can't be built big enough for both the person and fire, then a small one for a fire along with the hammock could keep a person drier and warmer.
Hope this inspires some thoughts and more comments!
Good luck!
------------------
Plainsman
primitiveguy@hotmail.com
not2sharp
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 20,399
First off don't panic... more people have probably gotten hurt trying to run out of the woods to beat the dark, then anything else.
1) Visibility is dropping so try to find a well marked (worn) trail or compass heading. This is the time to try to figure out where you are and how you are going to get out. Stumbling around the woods in the dark can get fustrating.
2) Take stock of the equipment you have on hand. A couple of years ago I got stuck on a trail after dark with a very panicky other half. I worked us out of the rough with the remaing daylight, and then three miles down a well marked (but very dark wood shaded) trail using my small flashlight. It would have been much easier if I had remembered that we had packed a backup headlamp in her backpack.
3. The water is no colder at night than it is in late afternoon. The bigger problem will probably be that trails are harder to follow in a wetland.
4. Depending on where you are (i.e. lost)it might be best to spend the night in the woods. Make a consious decision ASAP, and try to set up camp while there is still some light. First priority would be to get out of the water and build a small camp fire (the fire provides heat, light, and entertainment - something to do) while you wait for daylight.
5. Try to enjoy yourself. Take in as much as you can and think about the story you're going to tell when you get back. Remember, you went into the woods in the first place in serach of a little excitement.
Despite immediate perception the night is only about 10 hours long. Take the time to come up with a colorful and graphic story about alien abduction
.
[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 22 December 1999).]
1) Visibility is dropping so try to find a well marked (worn) trail or compass heading. This is the time to try to figure out where you are and how you are going to get out. Stumbling around the woods in the dark can get fustrating.
2) Take stock of the equipment you have on hand. A couple of years ago I got stuck on a trail after dark with a very panicky other half. I worked us out of the rough with the remaing daylight, and then three miles down a well marked (but very dark wood shaded) trail using my small flashlight. It would have been much easier if I had remembered that we had packed a backup headlamp in her backpack.
3. The water is no colder at night than it is in late afternoon. The bigger problem will probably be that trails are harder to follow in a wetland.
4. Depending on where you are (i.e. lost)it might be best to spend the night in the woods. Make a consious decision ASAP, and try to set up camp while there is still some light. First priority would be to get out of the water and build a small camp fire (the fire provides heat, light, and entertainment - something to do) while you wait for daylight.
5. Try to enjoy yourself. Take in as much as you can and think about the story you're going to tell when you get back. Remember, you went into the woods in the first place in serach of a little excitement.
Despite immediate perception the night is only about 10 hours long. Take the time to come up with a colorful and graphic story about alien abduction
[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 22 December 1999).]
First off panic is going to be his worst enemy, that is possibly how he got is arms wet? Second would be hypothermia as his wet coat and the water pull heat from his body. I am assuming he had some type of stand? POssibly tree stand to hunt from? Not having many particulars it might be best for him to go back to that stand and spend the night out of the water. I am assuming (and we know what that does) he was not just standing around in the water all day.
Second possbility is how large is this woods? Did he have a flashlight? Compass? If the stand of woods was not too large and he knew the distance in any given direction to a road he could keep moving slowly, in the same direction using the compass to keep a straight line. In many areas there are roads in almost any given direction if you walk far enough, knowing how far these distances is part of knowing where you are. Once you get out of the woods/water, no matter where you get out, you could then make a fire and or shelter for the night.
------------------
Lee
LIfe is too important to be taken seriously. Oscar Wilde
Second possbility is how large is this woods? Did he have a flashlight? Compass? If the stand of woods was not too large and he knew the distance in any given direction to a road he could keep moving slowly, in the same direction using the compass to keep a straight line. In many areas there are roads in almost any given direction if you walk far enough, knowing how far these distances is part of knowing where you are. Once you get out of the woods/water, no matter where you get out, you could then make a fire and or shelter for the night.
------------------
Lee
LIfe is too important to be taken seriously. Oscar Wilde
Again first order of business let someone know where you are going. The only problem this causes sometimes is that people will
be embarrassed to have someone find them if they are lost so will try to get out of the
woods or where ever and make things worse.
It's like driving in extreamly bad weather
people have "get thereitis" and alot of times
it proves fatal. If you are slogging through
a swamp that deep hunting it's fairly hard
not to get part of the upper body wet.
IMO the best thing to do would be to cut and
lash two poles on either side of two standing
trees and make a platform overhanging the
lashed poles six inches on either side. In
my experience you can find three trees in a triangle in short proxcimity when you want to practice making a platform but never when you
really need it. I haven't seen much posted
about what was called a space blanket but
they are light and work fairly well when stuck out overnight in moderate weather (keep
them vented) I make it a practice to scout
an area out and get to know it BEFORE I hunt
it. It will make all the difference in the
world in keeping from getting lost and hunting success ratio or else go with someone
that is familiar and stay with them.
Anyway I guess I put in my .08
------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91
be embarrassed to have someone find them if they are lost so will try to get out of the
woods or where ever and make things worse.
It's like driving in extreamly bad weather
people have "get thereitis" and alot of times
it proves fatal. If you are slogging through
a swamp that deep hunting it's fairly hard
not to get part of the upper body wet.
IMO the best thing to do would be to cut and
lash two poles on either side of two standing
trees and make a platform overhanging the
lashed poles six inches on either side. In
my experience you can find three trees in a triangle in short proxcimity when you want to practice making a platform but never when you
really need it. I haven't seen much posted
about what was called a space blanket but
they are light and work fairly well when stuck out overnight in moderate weather (keep
them vented) I make it a practice to scout
an area out and get to know it BEFORE I hunt
it. It will make all the difference in the
world in keeping from getting lost and hunting success ratio or else go with someone
that is familiar and stay with them.
Anyway I guess I put in my .08
------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91
- Joined
- Nov 29, 1999
- Messages
- 632
Hi Gumdoc,
great talking to you on the phone yesterday. I look forward to you joining us in our January Wilderness Survival/Adventure trip from Jan 20-23, 2000.
In answer to you question:
Don't get in this situation...always carry a compass and map and have an emergency heading you can take in situations like this (proper prior preperation prevents poor performance...) With that said...and realizing we could beat the preperation component to death...I will answer based on the situation given.
I would treat it as if in the everglades or jungle environments. This individual has to get out of the water and dry himself out or he may well die from exposure during the night. Since the ground is wet...he will need to construct an elevated platform shelter/bed (details in my book :>))....
Once done, I would then gather large diameter (wrist size) pieces of green wood that were approximately 3 feet long to use as a platform for the fire I would build on my bed...yes you heard me right. Note: Green wood can and will burn when hot enough so this is a tricky thing to do but will work. I would gather enough wood to make it through the night (enough in the various stages so that I could build many fires should I need to replace my platform).
Using this fire, I would dry all of my clothing and keep myself warm through the night.
In addition, I would look for dry moss or other insulating materials that I could put between the layers of my clothing for insulation. I would also place it below and over me when on the platform bed.
In the morning I would get out of there. Hopefully I could catch a glimpse of the sun coming up and using this to establish gross cardinal directions, I could get out (you told me the forest was dense and I would not be able to use the sun during the day for celestial navigation...however, I should still be able to recognize where it is rising from).
Last I would never go out again without the proper equipment and education to protect me from a similar situation in the future (recognizing that...except for the grace of God, therefore goes I...exception). I would buy my (Greg Davenport's) book (Wilderness Survival, Stackpole Books 1998) and Ron/Karen's video's and attend one of my classes at ANEW/Simply Survival
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
great talking to you on the phone yesterday. I look forward to you joining us in our January Wilderness Survival/Adventure trip from Jan 20-23, 2000.
In answer to you question:
Don't get in this situation...always carry a compass and map and have an emergency heading you can take in situations like this (proper prior preperation prevents poor performance...) With that said...and realizing we could beat the preperation component to death...I will answer based on the situation given.
I would treat it as if in the everglades or jungle environments. This individual has to get out of the water and dry himself out or he may well die from exposure during the night. Since the ground is wet...he will need to construct an elevated platform shelter/bed (details in my book :>))....
Once done, I would then gather large diameter (wrist size) pieces of green wood that were approximately 3 feet long to use as a platform for the fire I would build on my bed...yes you heard me right. Note: Green wood can and will burn when hot enough so this is a tricky thing to do but will work. I would gather enough wood to make it through the night (enough in the various stages so that I could build many fires should I need to replace my platform).
Using this fire, I would dry all of my clothing and keep myself warm through the night.
In addition, I would look for dry moss or other insulating materials that I could put between the layers of my clothing for insulation. I would also place it below and over me when on the platform bed.
In the morning I would get out of there. Hopefully I could catch a glimpse of the sun coming up and using this to establish gross cardinal directions, I could get out (you told me the forest was dense and I would not be able to use the sun during the day for celestial navigation...however, I should still be able to recognize where it is rising from).
Last I would never go out again without the proper equipment and education to protect me from a similar situation in the future (recognizing that...except for the grace of God, therefore goes I...exception). I would buy my (Greg Davenport's) book (Wilderness Survival, Stackpole Books 1998) and Ron/Karen's video's and attend one of my classes at ANEW/Simply Survival
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
I do not think I can add all that much to the advice listed already, but I can correct a misperception or two that hopped up.
Not2sharp,
Only 10 hours long? What a silly thing to say so soon after the winter solstice...
Even if you are counting for twilight periods, where I am the sun is only above the horizon for 3 3/4 hours right now, and we have at least 16 hours of honest to gosh darkness.
Normark,
Water can easily conduct heat away faster than you can produce it. Especially if it is even a little bit cold. Marathon swimmers, doing extremely active exercise in water, have problems with hypothermia. Your best bet, if you _cannot_ get out of the water, is to curl up in a fetal position and float, staying as still as possible to reduce the flow of water over your, which would only bring more cold water to cool you off. Don't think you can exercise your way warm in water, most small ponds can absorb more heat than you can generate in a week...
Stryver, who remember the joys of sending a bunch of scouts into a 60F lake to do a mile swim...
Not2sharp,
Only 10 hours long? What a silly thing to say so soon after the winter solstice...
Normark,
Water can easily conduct heat away faster than you can produce it. Especially if it is even a little bit cold. Marathon swimmers, doing extremely active exercise in water, have problems with hypothermia. Your best bet, if you _cannot_ get out of the water, is to curl up in a fetal position and float, staying as still as possible to reduce the flow of water over your, which would only bring more cold water to cool you off. Don't think you can exercise your way warm in water, most small ponds can absorb more heat than you can generate in a week...
Stryver, who remember the joys of sending a bunch of scouts into a 60F lake to do a mile swim...
not2sharp
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 20,399
My apology Stryver.
I have to admit I was thinking about a far more moderate venue (I live in the South East). Never entered my mind that I might be standing/hunting waist deep water at night in the mist of an Alaskan Winter. Could happen, but I suspect my goose would be cooked long before nightfall.
There are just some places we shouldn't be without proper equipment, training, and local experience. Lost in the middle of an Alaskan wetlands in winter is one that comes to mind (at least for me).
Still, I think that's one misconception I would have preferred to hang on to (16 hours oh-boy
[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 24 December 1999).]
I have to admit I was thinking about a far more moderate venue (I live in the South East). Never entered my mind that I might be standing/hunting waist deep water at night in the mist of an Alaskan Winter. Could happen, but I suspect my goose would be cooked long before nightfall.
There are just some places we shouldn't be without proper equipment, training, and local experience. Lost in the middle of an Alaskan wetlands in winter is one that comes to mind (at least for me).
Still, I think that's one misconception I would have preferred to hang on to (16 hours oh-boy
[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 24 December 1999).]
I would opt for the platform bed as soon as I realize the danger rather than risk to be caught by dark in the water (if cannot find way out). I should also agrre with the idea of making some fire if possible.
Just a few ideas in addition:
1) I would make a pyramid firelay from green wood and try to do my best not to let it burn my platform (otherwise back to square 1 at a worse time of the day). That way the fire would burn downwards consuming my platform the last.
2) If I had stronger wire maybe I would put my fire on a hanging platform next to me to avoid burning platform.
3) Some Al foil, pot, tin cup, coffee can could serve as a hobbo stove to hang or just control fire better on platform
4) Would make platform 3x more stable than it appears to be necessary 'cause my life depends on it. Instead of thick branches, I would cut more of the 5-10cm diameter ones (quicker to chop/saw and if one fails the others will hold) and lash them together (if I have anything to lash with-PREPAREDNESS).
HM
Just a few ideas in addition:
1) I would make a pyramid firelay from green wood and try to do my best not to let it burn my platform (otherwise back to square 1 at a worse time of the day). That way the fire would burn downwards consuming my platform the last.
2) If I had stronger wire maybe I would put my fire on a hanging platform next to me to avoid burning platform.
3) Some Al foil, pot, tin cup, coffee can could serve as a hobbo stove to hang or just control fire better on platform
4) Would make platform 3x more stable than it appears to be necessary 'cause my life depends on it. Instead of thick branches, I would cut more of the 5-10cm diameter ones (quicker to chop/saw and if one fails the others will hold) and lash them together (if I have anything to lash with-PREPAREDNESS).
HM
would it be worth dredging up some muck to place on the platform(hoping its mineral based) so that the fire doesnt burn through it?
i remember seeing somehting once about native americans fishing at night, and they built fires in their boats ontop of piles of sand.
though im not real sure how to go about getting the muck without getting even more wet, and i guess there is a chance that the muck is organic, and will burn as soon as it dries out
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AKTI member #A000911
i remember seeing somehting once about native americans fishing at night, and they built fires in their boats ontop of piles of sand.
though im not real sure how to go about getting the muck without getting even more wet, and i guess there is a chance that the muck is organic, and will burn as soon as it dries out
------------------
AKTI member #A000911
- Joined
- Dec 29, 1999
- Messages
- 932
Still;
Always remember, if you are lost
, STAY PUT!!!!!! You try to walk out,you may make your problem worse!!!
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Big-Target>>>>>>SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM
Always remember, if you are lost
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Big-Target>>>>>>SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM