Loveless welt thoughts?

[grogimus]

Using a Loveless welt was mentioned in another thread and had me thinking about trying it out. I'm drawing up a pouch sheath for a Swamp Rat Ratweiler and originally had it like this-

But I wanted to try out this to accommodate the pronounced finger guard.

I just wasn't sure if it would either wear out fast enough to be of no use or be too much of an obstacle to seat the blade. It's a 1/4" blade with 8/9 oz leather so it definitely needs a bit of extra space.

I typically have more problems with a sheath being too tight than not enough, but I'm 'bat-winging' the portion of the sheath around the handle to give it a bit of breathing space.

Anyone tried and had luck with this?

I read this is also called a Loveless cam but I only found one thread on it, I apologize if it's been discussed at length before.

 

[leatherman]

I'll see if I can find the book, but yes, the Loveless cam does work and it works very well.

But, your pattern is a little pronounced for long term use. The original pattern is a much more gradual and much longer curve in the welt. This makes it last much longer and work much smoother.

I'm heading for bed but will get back to this asap tomorrow. Especially if you need a visual, I have patterns I can take a picture of to better illustrate what I am trying so badly to explain.

Some will say they dont last long, but i have a personal sheath that is going on ten years and still has that satisfying snap in place.

 

[leatherman]

Double tap. gotta love the Database errors late a night.

 

[grogimus]

If you've a pattern that shows it that would be fantastic. A more gradual transition into it makes sense but pictures are always good. I'm gluing a similar style sheath up for an ASH-2 but with a straight welt tonight, should be sewn up tomorrow to check the retention.

 

[Akcir]

Leatherman is correct, a more gradual "ramp " will help with durability. I have a couple of sheaths that I made 5 years ago, and they are still working great. I also put a good burnish on that area, thinking it would increase the life of it.

 

[john april]

i agree with the other guys. i have built quite a few, and have two loveless sheaths to inspect inside. the abruptness of that cam will make it hard to push the knife down past it. more gradual is the key. like this diagram. before i glue the sheath shut before sewing, i test the fit by putting clamps along the welt to be sure it is not too snug or loose when inserting.

 

[Spyder59]

I am glad you guys are exploring this option. I didn't know what it is, and I'm very interested in it too.

 

[Horsewright]

Check the stickies at the top of the page. Look at the tutorial I did on pancake sheaths. There's some pics on the first page that really show well, how to get this accomplished. This "Loveless welt" will last the lifetime of the sheath. Done correctly the knife will go clunk when seating it past the cam. You will be able to turn it upside down and vigoursly shake the sheath and the knife will remain in place. I like the supporting stitch line on the welt to be about a 1/4" back from the edge. This allows me to do some fine tuning after the sheath is built if necessary. I'd much rather the sheath be a little tight than a little loose. If necessary I can stick a rat tail file down in there and adjust the cam on the welt with just a few strokes of the file. That 1/4" gives me the room to make those adjustments if needed.

 

[sheathmaker]

Grogimus, I see a problem waiting to happen with your pattern as drawn. The clearance between your knife and the welt on the interior of the sheath is way too tight. An absolute minimum of 1/8" all the way around is necessary. If your blade is relatively thick like 1/4" or more the even more allowance for clearance should be made, like at least 3/16". This could have been a contributing factor to your previous too tight sheaths.

Next the curved upper portion (edge side near the mouth) of your design will not do anything in the way of usefulness, but will make the edge finishing more difficult.

Paul

 

[grogimus]

Thanks for the help guys. I finished up a similar sheath that I'd already cut out without the Loveless cam and I would've had to have built a huge ramp in to help.

I haven't wet formed it yet but the retention is pretty good already. Presumably because of how much of the handle it's covering.

The leather had some pretty gnarly range marks in it, so I figured I'd play around with it.

Paul, I was having a brain disconnect trying to trace the blade for the pattern so when I draw the pattern out I keep the pencil perpendicular to the blade edge so it gives me half the width of the pencil in spacing. I dunno if I'm explaining that well enough.

 

[leatherman]

Looking good! And your right, the depth of the sheath can have a lot to do with good carry retention. In other words it can fit a bit looser and it wont be an issue. It becomes crucial when the depth is rather shallow, then you want some extra bits to ensure retention.