Low fit and finish at REKAT?

C

Cliff Stamp

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In a recent detailed review, Chiro describes several problems with a couple of REKAT folders that look to indicate a low level of fit and finish :
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001441.html

Is what he describes the expected product or did the QC just slip a little and let those two pass? What is the customer service policy on such issues?

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

I have 3 REKATS, a Pocket Hobbit, a Carnivour, and a SIFU. I would say they are all a little lacking in the fit and finish department compared to a lot of other knives in the same price range. However, in things that matter like lockup, ergonomics, and cutting (the edges need to be thinned a little to make them cut), they are hard to beat. For the money, I think they are a bargain compared to lot of other knives that look "purty", cost just as much or more, but don't perform as well.

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John
 
Both knives that Chiro has were bought second hand. I’ve seen used knives for sale that range from like new to last use was out the barrel of a 105 and every thing in between. Some of the knives that have changed hands two or three times and then came back for repair were modified by people that had no clue as to what they were doing. We’ve seen the lock notches (polished sanded ground) to the point that not only dose the knife not lock up, but doesn’t hold as well as a slip joint. Some have dermal tools taken to the G 10 that left a finish that looks worse than a gravel road then we get ask what’s up with your QC how did you let knives out the door like this. Bottom line is we didn’t. Knives like these are handled as non-warranty repairs.
Is what he describes the expected product. On the used market sounds like he did better than some and not as well as others.
Before some one jumps on us about our QC let me say this the overall fit and finish and smoothens of the action on the early Pioneers is nothing like the Pioneers made today. I have one of the first 10 Pioneers made to compare to and we have a way to go but we have come a long way from the first ones.
Action smoothens has received A lot of R & D as of late the SIFU was the first to be fully up to date the others will fallow as new parts are made. A side note about action smoothens. The way the Rolling Lock works at it’s very best will never be as smooth as top line liner locks. Comparing a Rolling lock to a Liner Lock is like comparing a ¾ ton 4X4 to a Cadillac both can cost the same but they don’t ride the same because they were made for different purposes. The Rolling Lock was designed for all out strength and like most things that go that far to one side of the scales there’s a compromise. With the Rolling Lock it was action smoothens.

Bob Brother


 
I've bought both a used and a new Carnivour. ON both knives the G-10 scales didn't line up with the liners. The G-10 was a couple hundreths oversized. I also noticed that the liners were not continuous...maybe because the CNC "burped" when it transitioned from one curve to the next?

I found the Carniour to be a very fun knife to work on. I completely took it apart (which scared me since I only had an "idea" about what to do) and polished inside the liners, and on the contact surfaces. The grittiness of the RL mech. is almost completely gone since I cleaned it up.

I think that REKAT makes a fine product with a very cool locking mech. Compared to my Spyderco Wegner, the fit and finish was no where near as close. I realize, however, that it would be much more costly to clean up every single knife off the line. I got what I expected...a REKAT/Crawford collaboration with the strongest locking mech. on the market. I love my Carny.

~Mitch
 
I've purchased 1 Pioneer, 1 Pocket Hobbit, 2 Sifu's, 1 Carnivore. I enjoy all these knives as I do my others that range from custom to production. I think they all have their own personality, so to speak. These are tough quality knives. This being the reason for my continued purchases of REKAT's. ( At least thats what I try to convince myself every time I buy a knife!!)
smile.gif

This really can become habit forming.
biggrin.gif
 
Originally posted by Bob Brothers:
Both knives that Chiro has were bought second hand. I’ve seen used knives for sale that range from like new to last use was out the barrel of a 105 and every thing in between.
Click to expand...

Bob, you are correct. Both were in perfect condition upon my receipt and neither had modifications that I could see. The scales not fitting quite flush with the liners has been described by everyone with a Carnivore, and the deep grind lines in the Pioneer which make opening it so rough are also the result of factory manufacturing, not customer tampering. I am certain of this for two reasons: 1) No one would make that modification to such a knife and the lines are absolutely parallel and 2) The surface of the tang was still stonewashed. If someone had screwed up modifying the knife, and for some reason ground the heck out of the tang and left those grind lines, the stonewashing would have been removed. So, I am certain the Pioneer came with VERY deep grind lines. I have spent a lot of time with 120 grit sandpaper and at that pace it would take approximately forever to get those lines out! Luckily I am generally not bothered by such things, but at the price range people who are complaining about it do have a valid point.


Some have dermal tools taken to the G 10 that left a finish that looks worse than a gravel road then we get ask what’s up with your QC how did you let knives out the door like this.
Click to expand...

I understand the dilemma, but in terms of my knives this is not the case. The open nature of REKAT's constuction begs them to be modified and played with, not to mention that this is utterly essential if the buyer wants very smooth action. FWIW, the Carnivore I have works great. The blade was canted a bit, but a hair of a turn on the pivot corrected this. The only thing I would call a QC problem is a ridiculously loose stop pin and poor fit up on that same pin, resulting in about 1mm of up and down play.


...let me say this the overall fit and finish and smoothens of the action on the early Pioneers is nothing like the Pioneers made today.
Click to expand...

I can't comment here. Unfortunately I do not know the age of my Pioneer, but it is definitely first generation lock. FWIW, again, my Carnivore did not have the same problems as my Pioneer, which indicates that more care is probably being taken with the tang grinding, being the only gripe I had on that Pioneer. The tang should still be given a good polish, though, if REKAT wants to insure people aren't going to take their knives apart to improve the action.

A side note about action smoothens. The way the Rolling Lock works at it’s very best will never be as smooth as top line liner locks.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. That is to be expected, and anyone who understand the RL will know this right off the bat.




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http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
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Sheath Makers Referral Directory
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Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html
 
I received my first REKAT a few days ago. A Carnivore for a Birthday present from my wife. I am quite pleased with it. Sure there are a few flaws, but nothing I cannot fix with a bit of sandppaper for the scales and some lock tight for the loose thumb studs. My wife bought it for its reputation for toughness, not its refinement. I got what my wife paid for and that's a mighty fine deal.

[This message has been edited by Willie Boy (edited 03-18-2000).]
 
Just to prove my job wasn't 100& amateur hacking:

<center><img src=http://www.geocities.com/chiro75/knives/carny1.jpg></center>


<center><img src=http://www.geocities.com/chiro75/knives/carnyclipclose.jpg></center>

<center><img src=http://www.geocities.com/chiro75/knives/carnyclosedbottomnoclip.jpg></center>




------------------
My Knife & Sheath Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
Sheath Makers Referral Directory
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html
 
I have a Pioneer and I must say that it´s pretty far from being a BM or Spydie. I bought it NIB. The knife had half a tube of Locktite inside it (from the factory) to keep it from rattling.
Deep grind lines all over. To be frank; a $3 Mora/Frost knife has better finish. Sad but true.
 
Well, I have a stonewashed Sifu and have no complaints at all. As far as fit and finish, it's better than a couple of Spydercos I've had and I consider myself to be a devoted Spydie fan. I would not hesitate to buy another REKAT. In fact, my next folder purchase will probably be a satin-finish Pocket Hobbit.
smile.gif
 
I got my Carnivour just last week, so I think mine is representative of current production. It was a little grittier than most Spydies, but I look at the tradeoffs. Yes, it wasn't as polished as a Spydie, but I think I got a whole lot more knife for the price. You can complain all day about how the fit and finish isn't on par with other companies. I'm sure REKAT can do that, but it'll cost you. Then everyone will complain that they're too expensive. I think REKAT has a nice compromise at their current level.

And if you want it smoother, REKAT's beg to be taken apart and worked on. Their action is simplistic and it's machine screw construction, so why not? If you need tips on smoothing your action, email Jailhack. He was happy to share his methods with me. I can tell you how I did it myself as I deviated a little from Jailhack's plan. My Carnivour is now as smooth as the Axis lock I used to have...and stronger and better in the hand too.

Personally, I feel I got a bargain.
 
For what it's worth, i now own the carnivore that chiro 75 customized.[got it yesterday].he did a VERY nice job. i have worked it considerably since i received it and the lock has adjusted to where there is no lateral blade play. it is now smooth enough to open and close with a flip of the wrist while holding the lock button[like an axis].very sturdy knife for the $ range. alot better than many others in that $ range IMO.

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russ aka bladezealot. a cat almost always blinks when hit in the head with a ball-peen hammer.
 
My Sifu OOB is as smooth as most linerlocks. It locks up tight and flies open with a flick-o-the-wrist. If this is indicative of REKAT's ongoing QC refinements, then all's well with this company, IMHO. If they can get this kind of performance into the other models, then the sky's the limit. I am extremely happy with my Sifu and after doing a tune-up on my Carnivour, it rocks as well as the Sifu now.
Great job with the Sifu guys!
biggrin.gif


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The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others.
Sun Tzu
 
I recently traded for a BF Sifu NIB. I would say it is comparable to my Emerson Commander in quality, fit and finish. I have no complaints whatsoever.

Ed
 
I guess you love'em or hate'em. I bought the new style Pioneer about 6 mo. ago - sent it back the next day - totally unacceptable in all aspects, irregardless of price. The cutting edge was even "chipped" about 1/4"
from the point! I wish REKAT every success
in their endeavor to improve their product.
They're competing with some great knives that
ALSO have strong locks, like the BM axis or mono-lock.
 
As a veteran of selling hundreds of REKAT knives I'd say they are indeed weak in the fit and finish department and also weak in quality control.

Nevertheless, we've had relatively few returns. I think the REKAT concept is hard use and utility as opposed to cosmetics and they certainly appeal to the people who are looking for that kind of knife. Function instead of form. They are certainly users (heavy duty ones at that) and not wall hangers.

We recommend them often to people who need truly heavy duty knives (more heavy duty than the Benchmades or Spydercos) and find that they satisfy these customers despite the fit and finish issues. We're not shy about discontinuing products that suffer a high return rate. We've never considered discontinuing the REKAT's. Take care.

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Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
 
Without spilling any beans, I've been talking to Bob Taylor about this, and it's looking like there may be some pretty neat things coming from REKAT in the near future (hopefully this year), that will more than answer the Fit and Finish / QC concerns that people are having.

As I've said before, I'll agree with you guys that there is room for improvement in REKAT's fit and finish department. That being said, they have shown consistant improvement (comparing the Pioneer to the Pioneer II for example), and they are always willing to do whatever it takes to fix a customer problem.

So sit tight, stuff will be happening.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
I have a BF Sifu #4 of 70. I'm the original owner. I have to say that I'm disappointed in the finish on this knife. It arrived with some quite obvious pitting on the blade as well as rust in several places. I cleaned up the rust (which left the stonewashed finish looking wierd) but there's nothing I can do about the pitting. The pits are too deep. When I contacted Bob Taylor about this he told me there was nothing he could do and that it was Mike Turber's problem. This really bothered me and has been bothering me ever since. That REKAT refused to stand behind their product doesn't speak well of those products. I'll not purchase another knife made by them.

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Megafolder Fans Unite!

Mike Melone

"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." Thomas Jefferson


 
Hold the phone there, Michael.

That is not the whole story.
You wanted another hand ground blade, serial numbered #4, to replace the one you had. Bob told you that that wasn't possible as he 1. Didn't have anymore hand ground blades at the time, and 2. wasn't willing to re-serial number knives as he felt it would be fraudulant.

He referred you to us because we'd contracted with him for the SIFU's and we were the point of contact for problems with the knives.
I have forwarded your email to Spark and Mike. The Forums contracted the Special Edition Sifu’s. Once they approve of the knives then it’s their decision on what to do for customer service. We will support whatever decision Mike and Spark arrive at, as the manufacture we cannot get into the
middle of this. We have no more hand ground blades they were all purchased by Blade Forums and it is cost prohibitive to make a single blade. Sorry we can’t offer any further help in this matter.
Click to expand...

We offered to credit you back for the price of the knife if you wanted to return it. We offered to trade the knife for one of the Black-T'ed BladeForums.com Sifu's. We asked you to send the knife back several times, but you were extremely reluctant to do so. In the end you decided to keep it.

Past that we couldn't do anything. We never got the knife back to check out, and were more than happy to refund your money. But we couldn't magic another Serial #4 hand ground blade.

Here's one of the email's I sent you on the subject
Michael, you have 2 options with us.

You can either return the knife for a refund, or you can keep the knife.

There are no more hand ground BF Marked REKAT Sifu's. We can't replace your knife with another one. We can either refund you the amount of the knife when we get it back, or you can keep the knife. Those are the only options we have.

If you don't want to return the knife for refund, there isn't much we can do.

If you want another Sifu, you can return the knife and we'll trade it out for a Black BF Sifu, but it won't be hand ground or serial numbered, and we'll have to charge you the difference.

Other than that, I'm at a loss. Please let me know which option you would like to take.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry that you were disappointed with the knife, and I'm sorry that we couldn't square you away on it. I'm sorry that your taking Flitz to the knife left the blade finish looking weird, and I'm extremely sorry that the ATS-34 blade rusted on you.

But if you don't send it back, there's nothing we can do to take care of you.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 04-22-2000).]
 
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