Lower HRC MagnaCut (60ish) - Why???

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Maximumbob54

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"Toughness can play a significant role in edge retention, especially regarding the blade geometry." - @JDOYLE

Hope I'm doing the quote thing right. That was mentioned in another thread. No arguments to the statement. I do believe the man to be a master of his craft.

With something like 3V you get that toughness that I'd think you can get some thinner blade geometry that stays tough enough to stay sharp and cutting longer than you would think it would. Which is another reason with all the fancy PM steels available I'm finding 14C28N blades are more and more to my liking if they are made right like the newer Kershaw Bonneville. Now that's a nice little knife.

But my original question that lead to the quote was that I don't agree with lower HRC MagnaCut. It seems like wasted potential. Yes, you lose some toughness, but in a folder I don't find the minor loss in toughness for a 63 HRC or better MagnaCut to be that much of a loss to make up for the gain in edge holding. My first MagnaCut knife was an MKM Yipper and looking it up says it was supposed to be at 61 - 63 HRC and I don't believe it for a second. My second was a large Sebenza. The Yipper was smaller and while it was thinner it was a higher but not full flat grind while the Seb is of course hollow. Just for grins I went to town on some card board. Obviously not scientific, single specimen, very much bro science, and just for fun. That Yipper went dull so fast that the cardboard started ripping before I finished the single square. So then I went nuts with the Sebenza. Slicing up cardboard is very pointless but strangely therapeutic, I swear. The cardboard was an old box I cut the sides to make squares about 20" x 20" and I was trying to slice about half and inch off at a time until I got a little close to my fingers holding it. The Sebenza blazed through it and then finished off the first square. And it still felt sharp. They list at 63-64 HRC and I don't doubt at all.

So I have to ask, when it comes to a smaller folder (not a large fixed blade) why would you want a lower HRC MagnaCut blade??? Why give up that better edge holding advantage??? Am I just being stubborn and there's something I'm missing out on???
 
I dont have either of those knives but geometry may have played a significant role in that experiment.

I prefer harder Magnacut. It would also be great to have more thin options in fixed blades and folders.
 
Many knife makers run their steels soft, especially PM steels. In my experience, Spyderco is one of the few thats has stayed consistent over the years in giving high quality HT. Im surprised the Seb is that hard, it was common for them to run their S30V at a lower hardness, so its nice to hear they are pushing the Magnacut to a higher level, as they should.

Kershaw was always one I thought set the bar low. Most kershaws I have sharpened over the years have always felt on the softer side. I have a livewire in Magnacut currently and i really like the knife but its not that hard, dulls out fairly quickly.

As a sharpener, I would like to see all blade steels at full potential but I believe manufactures dont want to do this because not all end users are like us. Many cant sharpen, many abuse the crap out of their knives, and being a bit softer helps the knife withstand the abuse and makes it easier to maintain. I dont agree with it and I feel its an old logic still being used today but, good luck changing their minds.
 
This whole industry is built on what people want, and not necessarily on what is the best, or even what is the best for the task we're trying to accomplish.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the knife or the steel or the company, or if the owner looks funny, you don't have to buy it.

I once had a Maxace Black Mirror I think the knife was called? Relatively respected Chinese knife maker. Extremely thin ground S90V, yet it went dull after a *single* piece of cardboard. One. I no longer buy Maxace knives. They haven't earned my trust.

I will pay more for a knife from a brand I trust with a good heat treat, even if it doesn't have all the bells and whistles.

MagnaCut is a really good steel. I use it almost every day as I have some custom chef's knives in it. Even at 63 they are tough enough to shrug off hitting bones when breaking meat down, dinging against other kitchen tools, and just general use. It can definitely be done well, as your Sebenza would seem to show!
 
Jason B. said:
many abuse the crap out of their knives
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I have long since lost count the number of times I've seen someone post a broken blade in Maxamet and then admit they were using it as a prybar.
Leo Greer said:
It can definitely be done well, as your Sebenza would seem to show!
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I'll kick the very dead horse of I wish they would offer a medium Sebenza. I can't carry the large at work and the small is just a little smaller than I would prefer. The OKC Rat 1.5 is such a perfect splitting the middle for an example. I don't know why that one doesn't get more pocket time. First world problems, I suppose.
Delgadonine said:
Is cost a factor?

Is it more expensive to get the higher HRC?
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Jason B. beat me to it while I was typing but I'll add I've read a few times MagnaCut is bad about cross contamination from other steels making it rust. So makers often have to double up on belts and whatever else just to add MagnaCut to the lineup. It may depend on what other steels they are working with.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
I'll kick the very dead horse of I wish they would offer a medium Sebenza. I can't carry the large at work and the small is just a little smaller than I would prefer. The OKC Rat 1.5 is such a perfect splitting the middle for an example. I don't know why that one doesn't get more pocket time. First world problems, I suppose.
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I'm blessed I work at a veteran owned business. If I brought a sword in my pocket everybody would probably pop out of their offices to take it for a swing. :D

I caught a bit of flak for my MachineWise Mojave, which is pink... if only they knew!
 
Leo Greer said:
I'm blessed I work at a veteran owned business. If I brought a sword in my pocket everybody would probably pop out of their offices to take it for a swing. :D

I caught a bit of flak for my MachineWise Mojave, which is pink... if only they knew!
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Or... they might just ask if you're happy to see them... 🤣
 
Speaking of Magnacut, Spyderco thought it was good enough to use in their Salt series because it has excellent corrosion resistance but instead of leaving it uncoated like the Salt series was previously, they thought Hmmm better coat the blades just to be safe.


1783437483386.jpeg
 
jeepin said:
Speaking of Magnacut, Spyderco thought it was good enough to use in their Salt series because it has excellent corrosion resistance but instead of leaving it uncoated like the Salt series was previously, they thought Hmmm better coat the blades just to be safe.
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Super mega ultra awesome corrosion resistant.... ;)
 
If toughness isn't important to you, S30V will be better than MagnaCut in terms of wear resistance. But at a lower hardness, MagnaCut has amazing toughness for a powder stainless steel -- about 17 ft-lbs at 61 Rc. By comparison, Vanax at that hardness has a toughness of 10 ft-lbs, according to Larrin's data.

If toughness isn't that important, I'd go with MagnaMax at 65 Rc, which has much more wear resistance than MagnaCut at 65 Rc (770 vs 570 TCC) and a toughness still as good as S35VN.

I have come to appreciate toughness over the years. As a homesteader, I use my pocketknife hard every day. Toughness can protect the apex of the edge and keep it sharp longer.

That said, with a custom heat treat from someone like Luong at Bluntcut Metal Works, MagnaCut at 63 Rc has incredible toughness -- more than I need. But that's a custom heat treat.
 
jeepin said:
Speaking of Magnacut, Spyderco thought it was good enough to use in their Salt series because it has excellent corrosion resistance but instead of leaving it uncoated like the Salt series was previously, they thought Hmmm better coat the blades just to be safe.


View attachment 3224998
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To be fair, Knifecenter currently lists 23 Spyderco models in Magnacut and only 8 of them are coated, meaning that there are almost 2x more knives left uncoated. That leads me to suspect it was an aesthetic choice, as all of the coated models also sport solid black G10 handles.
 
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