lower Rockwell for D2?

Y

Yorkshire Boy

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Sep 27, 2008
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I noticed that quite a few D2 knives are 60/61 on the rockwell scale.

Does it have to be this high, can it be 57/58?

How would it perform against 1095 of the same rockwell?
 
At the same hardness D2 holds a better edge, is harder to sharpen, & is semi-stainless. It takes a "toothy" edge. 1095 will be considerably tougher, sharpens up easier, & takes a fine edge easily.

D2 is popular for it's edge holding ability so it gets run harder to maximize this property in smaller knifes where toughness isn't a huge priority.

You'd have to get 1095 a few points harder to hold an edge as well as D2 but toughness would be comparable even at that hardness difference. I don't have enough experience to get too specific, but that's the general relationship.
 
If both were at the same hardness, 1095 might hold a fine razor edge longer than the D2. However, if both were at the same hardness, D2 will hold a toothy cutting edge longer than 1095 by far. D2 has carbides, which give it wear resistance. 1095 does not contain wear resistant carbides.

Think of the D2 as being concrete and 1095 as being cement. Once the rocks in the concrete are exposed, their wear resistance will outlast the concrete.
 
knarfeng said:
If both were at the same hardness, 1095 might hold a fine razor edge longer than the D2. However, if both were at the same hardness, D2 will hold a toothy cutting edge longer than 1095 by far. D2 has carbides, which give it wear resistance. 1095 does not contain wear resistant carbides.

Think of the D2 as being concrete and 1095 as being cement. Once the rocks in the concrete are exposed, their wear resistance will outlast the concrete.
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you meant outlast the cement right? :P
 
Knifetests.com did reviews of both the 1095 and D2 KaBar knives. You can watch the vids and check out how the two steels perform.
 
Dustar knives runs their large fixed blades in D2 in the mid 50s. This wouldn't have been a route that I would have gone, but according to the very few reviews I've seen, the impression seemed to be favorable. Mind you, I STILL don't know why you'd choose to run a steel like D2 that soft instead of just using A2 a couple points harder and getting at least as much toughness and then more abrasion and deformation resistance, but there are indeed more than one way to skin a cat. I finally got to handle Dustar knives at this last Blade Show--seemed fairly nicely put together, for what that's worth. Of course, for $200, they should be.
 
t1mpani said:
Dustar knives runs their large fixed blades in D2 in the mid 50s. This wouldn't have been a route that I would have gone, but according to the very few reviews I've seen, the impression seemed to be favorable. Mind you, I STILL don't know why you'd choose to run a steel like D2 that soft instead of just using A2 a couple points harder and getting at least as much toughness and then more abrasion and deformation resistance, but there are indeed more than one way to skin a cat. I finally got to handle Dustar knives at this last Blade Show--seemed fairly nicely put together, for what that's worth. Of course, for $200, they should be.
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Well I think that he ( YorkShire Boy ) want to get a knife that has D2's wear resistance, also 1095 toughness...
Guess he's seeking for a survival knife. In that case, I would choose a 1095 from Becker or ESEE, not the D2 kabar...in the field without diamond stone, it's gonna be a pry bar...or maybe too brittle to be a pry bar
 
I agree, the utility patterns from either of those two companies are going to serve him better, and properly done 1095 is an excellent (and more rugged) overall choice, but a word about the sharpening thing...

I'm not saying D2 is the absolute best bet, but have to admit that I find the "in the field without a diamond stone" to be a somewhat tired argument. How hard is it, in this age of folding DMT and Eze Lap diamond stones to take a diamond stone with you? I carry one of these http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=DMTF70C attached to my keys every single place I go. Couple that with the fact that many sheath designs have pouches on them in which you could carry two or three different grits of stone and I really don't think there's a realistic excuse to be without the ability to sharpen. As far as being able to sharpen a less abrasive-resistant steel on a regular stone-----try it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it can't be done, but the chances that you're going to be able to find a stone that is hard enough to not grind away and simultaneously coarse enough to remove steel at any rate that's going to do you any good, and also has a large enough flat area for you to sharpen in anything approaching an expedient manner are certainly not 100%. You may spend four hours looking for/using a really awkward makeshift stone instead of just using a professional grade sharpener that weighs a grand total of three ounces and being done---regardless of the steel in your knife---in about fifteen minutes. Those three hours and forty-five minutes you saved can now be spent gathering wood and finding/making shelter.

Some people just prefer the less abrasion-resistant steels, and I'm fine with that, but the whole idea of a scenario where I've survived my plane crash, swam to a desert island, and somehow my knife (which somehow I was able to have with me on the plane) survived while my sharpener was destroyed has always been a little tough to swallow.
 
I think most times the scenario is a LOST sharpener instead of a broken one. I've not really broken anything in the field, but I have lost stuff. You can touch up the 1095 on just about anything. The D2, not so much.
 
Again, it's a possibility, but I think the knife has every bit as much chance of getting lost as the sharpener. Especially since the sharpener can ride in your pocket, OR in the pocket of the sheaths that many of these knives have. Carry more than one sharpener!

If your knife starts out sharp, unless you decide to build a log cabin or have some sort of application for cutting several hundred feet of cardboard in the wild, I have trouble putting my finger on the survival situation that's going to dull the knife to the point of not working any longer before you can get help. I can make enough fuzz sticks to start a half dozen fires with a keychain SAK and no resharpenings, and that's 420 steel at about 54-55 HRC. I know it seems I'm hitting this hard but it really isn't as easy to find an effective field sharpener in some locations as people like to put forward. Effective means that it doesn't take you hours to resharpen. The other thing is that we here in the knife knut world have a horrible habit of drinking too much of our own coolaid: D2 has more abrasion resistance than 1095, but it's not like night and day. If I have just plain stones, it takes about twice as long to sharpen D2 as 1095 at the same hardness. If I have diamond stones, it's probably 20-30% more time. Especially given the serious lack of sharpening skill that seems to abound among many here on these boards, I think it's inaccurate to lead people to believe that they're going to be able to get a hair-whittling edge back with any piece of sandstone they pick up just because their knife is 1095. Hell, a bunch of 'em can't achieve that with high quality stones, a comfortable chair, and plenty of light.

Regardless of your steel choice, the important thing to remember is frequent touchups BEFORE you get dull. D2 responds to burnishing/steeling every bit as well as 1095. Don't let it get dull, and it's not an issue. If ever I'm out in the wild, and lose my sharpeners by losing every single piece of clothing I have (thus removing my pockets) and I'm walking around naked with my newly-dulled survival knife that I can't touch up, and see (during a hunger-induced hallucination) a saint appear before me who informs me that this is my penance for choosing such a high-vanadium content steel, then I'll come back to this thread and repent.
 
knarfeng said:
Yes. The rocks will outlast the cement.

Shoulda read that through one more time before I posted. Thanks for catching that.
Click to expand...

I think that is quite possibly the finest analogy that I have read, where carbides are concerned. Even I can understand it. ;)

@ t1mpani - lmao! Excellent post.
 
Come to think of it, I DO carry more than one sharpener--I have a DMT card in my wallet! That's right...it's so small, thin, light, and easy to carry that I forgot I have it. It's been in my pocket for three years now.

If you end up (especially intentionally) out in the wild without the ability to sharpen, you should be spanked with your dull knife. ;)
 
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