Lum Folder vs Lum Fixed Blade (Madpoet/Chiro75 version)

Sorry I sounded so defensive if I came off that way. I didn't realize Bob was responsible for the "tanto" in the US. Was he responsible for what we typically call an "American tanto" i.e. with the more geometric profile?

Do you have a way I can get in touch with Bob? I'd like to show him my version of this knife and see what he thinks. Also, do you have other leaf pattern blades in your collection? I'd like to see the ones from China if that's possible. Thanks for your explanation. Interestingly, if you look at the Madpoet version of the knife it's quite similar to the one Jens makes now, being a little more stretched out. Mine is actually rounder than even the folder, largely due to the finishing touches during profiling of the blade.
 
Chiro75 said:
Was he responsible for what we typically call an "American tanto" i.e. with the more geometric profile?
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No. Phil Hartsfield, Ernest Emerson, and Cold Steel had a lot to do with that version of the Tanto. Bob was the one that first made Tanto's by stock removal, and not by forging.
Chiro75 said:
Do you have a way I can get in touch with Bob?
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http://www.boblumknives.com/
 
Hey there Tony-
It's entirely possible that we've met. Bob's tables have a way of being empty by about 2 pm on the opening Friday. ;) I'll say hey if/when I catch another show- would be good to put a face w/ the name.
rgds,
Mike
 
I think Chiro75's design is quite different from Mr. Lum's design, and I actually love Chiro's design better than Lum's. Also, I cannot see much difference between Lum's design and the traditional Chinese pattern other than the opening hole and locking mechanism. I don't see any obligation that another knifemaker needs to contact with Bob Lum before he accomodate this traditional pattern into his design. Here is a pic of the traditional Chinese folder from Joe Chen's website
chinesefolder5.jpg
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For more pics about this design, you can visit Joe Chen's site at
http://joe.knifenut.idv.tw/shi-lin/chinesefolder.htm
 
The first line of that page reads "A hundred year old design, made in Taiwan" if my poor chinese serves me correctly :) I don't see people asking for permission to make ghurka knives or other patterns... Its a shame that the modern practice of patenting means that "new" designs are now restricted.
 
lreed said:
Also, I cannot see much difference between Lum's design and the traditional Chinese pattern other than the opening hole and locking mechanism. I don't see any obligation that another knifemaker needs to contact with Bob Lum before he accomodate this traditional pattern into his design.
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Joe was nice enough to send me two of those Shi-Lin knives from Taiwan last year, and I gave one to Bob as a present. The main difference between the two knives is that Bob figured out how to put a pivot with a liner lock into the design without changing the shape too much (all the Shi-Lins I've ever handled were slip joints like that one from Taiwan). That and the fact he incorporated his sense of balance and line to the design, which Chiro75 used to launch his version. So, in this one instance, a courtesy call to Bob would not have been out of order. If Chiro75 started with Joe's version, I wouldn't be here writing this.
 
madhaha said:
I don't see people asking for permission to make ghurka knives or other patterns... Its a shame that the modern practice of patenting means that "new" designs are now restricted.
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Your logic is flawed. If someone makes a bowie, that's borrowing a historical pattern. If someone makes a Michael Price Frisco Bowie, that's copying. Why? Because that bowie is a specific design that most people associate with Michael Price, because he was the first one to put the design elements together. This is a case of a specific maker's version of a historical pattern being used.

Also, I don't see a problem protecting a maker who uses his creativity and comes up with a fresh design of something old, or comes up with a better way to open a folder or keep it locked more securely. Why should he allow all that work to go to other maker's pockets, when he did all the leg work?
 
Great picture, lreed! Thanks much! That's a nice looking knife and Bob's version is very faithful to it, if this is considered the "traditional" pattern. I've thought a lot about this little dilemma and I decided this (BTW, I emailed Bob two days ago with pics of mine and how it came to be for his input/approval, FWIW): this may be a non-issue if I was a maker making these in Asia. In the USA, though, this is not a common pattern, it's a pattern that is associated with Lum and, more so because most people don't care who did what, with Spyderco. Maybe it'd be the same if Mr. Xiao was the first Chinese maker to offer bowies in China and a bunch of other dudes started doing similar work.

Again, I still think my knife is very different from the original, and I have been careful to state that it was inspired by the Spyderco/Lum original, so I don't think I've overstepped any boundaries. Also, it's sort of a non-issue considering the fact that the only one I'll make in the future will probably be for myself. But, i thought it'd be interesting to see what Bob had to say, so I am trying to get his approval/permission anyway. If I was going around saying "Hey, look at this new pattern I came up with" then I'd deserve some big trouble!

So, considering that in THIS country not a lot of people are using this design, I guess it's only right to have a chat with Mr. Lum and see what he has to say. Have other makers who offer this pattern in their usual lineup done the same?
 
Chiro, the pic is taken by JoeChen, he takes great pics of great knives.
It will be pitty if you would not offer this knife in the future. It's beautiful and will definately make a great utility knife.
 
Chiro75 said:
So, considering that in THIS country not a lot of people are using this design, I guess it's only right to have a chat with Mr. Lum and see what he has to say. Have other makers who offer this pattern in their usual lineup done the same?
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I'll try and put in a good word for you with Bob. I applaud your willingness to do the right thing here.

As for other makers doing this design, Reese Weiland recently made the WhaleShark for someone in Taiwan based on the Shi Lin. The folder is different in that it has a flipper. Turned out very nicely.

whale01.jpg


Image from Reese's website: http://www.reeseweilandknives.com/rw_knives_home.htm
 
Next time I'll read the topic and the preceeding posts before making a complete ass of myself ;)

Nice design by Reese...
 
?? I assume the knife with the flipper isn't the one you pictured above? Unless I don't know what a flipper is! That's a great knife you pictured! Looks almost exactly like the folder in terms of its lines. Very good! My work is cut out for me! :)
 
madhaha said:
Nice design by Reese...
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Execution by Reese, design by Jonny Liao.

Chiro75 said:
?? I assume the knife with the flipper isn't the one you pictured above? Unless I don't know what a flipper is!
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. Jonny designed his version of the Chinese Shi Lin and had Reese make it. The fixed blade version is called Whale Shark. Here's the folder version:

wsfl.jpg

Picture from Jonny knife magazine: http://www.knife-life.com.tw/

Note the flipper on the third knife down. Also note the use of the thumb stud as a stop pin.
 
Well, just heard back from Bob and he says we're going into business together as Shi Lin Knife Company, LLC! Just kidding. He was cool with my using the design. I'm glad Tonyccw got the ball rolling on this! I'll have some pics of the sheath soon, too. It's great, if I do say so myself. You'll see! :)
 
Hey Guys,
Sorry so late- I didn't really read the rest of thread in detail until now.
Not to add any confusion, but it was my idea for Chiro to make that knife as a fixed blade (with finger cutout). Just so it's clear that Chiro wasn't lifting anybody's design or anything- I was under the impression that the design was a long-standing "traditional" pattern and that it had been modified enough (finger notch) to set it aside from any other maker's work.
I appreciate the care exercised in this community to protect the integrity of a maker's designs, and wouldn't commission a blade from anyone that would so closely mimic another maker's work as to confuse the authorship.
I'm looking forward to receiving & using the knife. It's a pattern that begs to be in the hand. Thanks to Mr. Lum for resurrecting the pattern and making it "current" again for the occidental market. Thanks to Mr. Glesser for putting the folder into production.
 
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