Lyme Disease

mete

mete

Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
15,288
http://vitalitymagazine.com/article/lyme-disease-in-canada

This is a very well written article about a problem many in the medical field have ignored ! It's far more serious than I thought !! I'm in the middle of treatment now ,delayed by dumb doctors !!

Pass this one on and be carefull. We often worry about the big things in survival but here's a tiny thing that can be terrible even deadly !!
 
Pulled eight ticks off if my count is correct, this year. The last one was crawling up the back of my neck. I hate the damn things.
 
mete, I'm sorry to hear that you have contracted Lyme, but I am glad you started this thread. I have been considering starting a thread about Lyme for awhile. Of all the things discussed here in W&SS, none are more important than Lyme and the associated co-infections. Talk about survival! You can die from the bite of a tiny little insect, no bigger than a poppy seed. YES, YOU CAN DIE. A well known case here in Ontario - Gabe Magnotta, the CEO of Magnotta Wineries died as a result of Lyme and/or the co-infections. Part of the tragedy is that he repeatedly tested negative here in Canada and it wasn't until he was tested in the U.S. that he was found to be positive.

Lyme Disease, it's diagnosis and treatment is a medical disgrace both in the U.S. and (particularly) here in Canada.

A little background: because of my passion for wilderness survival and primitive skills, I have long been concerned about Lyme. Back in the 1990s I used to get tested once a year, not aware that our Lyme test – the Elisa was flawed. One day, my GP called me and advised me of the newly released (in this country) Lyme vaccine - Lymerix. He suggested that perhaps I should be vaccinated. I said to him that perhaps we should wait and see for a bit. He replied that it had been thoroughly tested in Europe and that it should be fine, so I went ahead.

Lymerix vaccination consisted of 3 shots - 1 today, 1 a month from now, and one a year from now. After receiving my first 2 shots, news started coming down the pipes saying that some people receiving the vaccine were developing the very same symptoms they were trying to avoid. It was later determined that people with a certain genetic makeup were experiencing the problems, not everybody. Fortunately I did not. At the time I decided, in for 2, might as well have the third, which I did. So now, apparently, any protection that was afforded is gone. Also, if I were to be tested, I would probably test positive for Lyme because of the vaccinations (this is not definite, yet)

This has created a dilemma for me. I should add also, that the only truly effective defense against Black-legged ticks (Ixodes scapularis) is permethrin, at least as I understand it. Great, so here’s the kicker – here in Canada, permethrin is not allowed to be sold for recreational use, despite the fact that it is used by the Canadian military. Also, if you travel abroad to certain countries, our government recommends the use of permethrin. SAY WHAT???
From http://travel.gc.ca/travelling/health-safety/insect-bite :

5) Apply a permethrin insecticide to clothing and other travel gear for greater protection
• Although permethrin is not available in Canada, travel health clinics can advise you how to purchase permethrin and pre-treated gear before or during your trip.
• Permethrin-treated clothing is effective through several washes.
• If treating clothing items yourself, follow product instructions carefully.
• Do not use permethrin directly on skin.

DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE??????

Add on top of this, there are very few LLMD (Lyme literate medical doctors) in Canada, so people infected here in Canada have to travel to the U.S. for treatment.

We need help! We need the medical community to take off the g***amn blinders and start doing their jobs.

The problem is that the general public are not aware of the full effects and devastation that is Lyme Disease, and the government is not forthcoming – Why? Perhaps because of the health insurance lobbyists, concerns of recreation interests – campgrounds, hunting and fishing enterprises, recreational areas, etc.

THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!!!

I have friends of mine that share the same survival and primitive skills interests that think I am Chicken Little, but I assure you – the sky IS falling.

Bottom line, I venture in the woods very seldom any more and when I do, you can rest assured that my black market permethrin is well sprayed on my clothes. Those that don’t – do so at their own peril.

RANT OFF!

Doc
 
Last edited:
Plus sadly according to the news I saw even the test for lyme disease in USA is also flawed.It said that it mostly misses early detections of the diesease but as you said always spray your permethrin before hand.
 
Lyme test looks for anti-bodies .Checking a long list , if you have more than a few you're considered positive. The best we have now.
About all they have for treatment is doxycyclin. But Lyme needs a large dose and long course which I haven't gotten. So now I'm heading for IV.
Any ideas for those allergic to pesticides ??
 
Wow, that was some spooky reading. I can surmise from your statement about going into the woods less often now Doc, that high DEET bug sprays aren't very effective. I rarely to never find ticks on myself after the May\June peak here. The wife and I usually just do a mirror body check before a shower after being out there.
 
And let's not forget the red meat allergies that are believed to be the result of the Lone Star Tic. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140220102727.htm

I have this problem. I am reportedly one of the 2,000 or so cases in the US. The article mentions "red meat" which includes beef, pork, and venison. Well, I have not had a problem with pork.... bacon and barbacue. For me, the reactions seems to be potentially linked to intake of really greasy foods like hamburgers. I can generally eat a roast, or an occasional T-bone from the grill and not have a reaction. But I have absolutely sworn off eating hamburgers.
 
The whole thing is pretty screwy. Apart from hurt egos, how can this be gotten so wrong? The worst part of this is that the treatment itself is very dangerous long term, and just chucking antibiotics at a problem is not a good idea. So you have someone in a panic, hunts up a testing lab with no idea if that lab is reliable or not, does everything themselves, and incorrectly treats an illness, and major problems start arising. Or someone decides that they have chronic lyme, which they may or may not (thats not the debate) but they may have something else that goes undiagnosed while they blast themselves with antibiotics.

IgeneX and Advanced lab services both mentioned in the Vitality article are mentioned in this articlehttps://necir.creatavist.com/lymediseasetesting as being below standard for basic lab practice, and not providing third party validation for their methods. So even the pro-education camp is not immune to the bias of "if they are trying to shut us down it must be because we are right" which is very common in conspiracy circles.

I can't believe this hasn't already been sorted out.
 
The World's Most Common Infectious Disease Is Denied by Health Officials
Click to expand...

Should I stop reading past this title? Malaria is an infectious disease caused by a parasite that KILLS over 650,000/year out of over 210,000,000 annual victims.

WHO study finds exaggerated perception of risk as compared to data in one study: http://www.who.int/bulletin/archives/79(10)916.pdf


CDC
Specific infectious diseases involving potential health risks for travellers

The main infectious diseases to which travellers may be exposed, and precautions for each, are detailed on the following pages. Information on malaria, one of the most important infectious disease threats for travellers, is provided in Chapter 7. The infectious diseases described in this chapter have been selected on the basis of the following criteria:

diseases that have a sufficiently high global or regional prevalence to constitute a significant risk for travellers;
diseases that are severe and life-threatening, even though the risk of exposure may be low for most travellers;
diseases for which the perceived risk may be much greater than the real risk, and which may therefore cause anxiety to travellers;
diseases that involve a public health risk due to transmission of infection to others by the infected traveller.
Information about available vaccines and indications for their use by travellers is provided in Chapter 6. Advice concerning the diseases for which vaccination is routinely administered in childhood, i.e. diphtheria, measles, mumps and rubella, pertussis, poliomyelitis and tetanus, and the use of the corresponding vaccines later in life and for travel, is also given in Chapter 6. These diseases are not included in this chapter.

The most common infectious illness to affect travellers, namely travellers’ diarrhoea, is covered in Chapter 3. Because travellers’ diarrhoea can be caused by many different foodborne and waterborne infectious agents, for which treatment and precautions are essentially the same, the illness is not included with the specific infectious diseases.

Some of the diseases included in this chapter, such as brucellosis, HIV/AIDS, leishmaniasis and TB, have prolonged and variable incubation periods. Clinical manifestations of these diseases may appear long after the return from travel, so that the link with the travel destination where the infection was acquired may not be readily apparent.

The list below does not include vaccine-preventable diseases (Chapter 6).

Amoebiasis
Angiostrongyliasis
Avian Influenza
Anthrax
Brucellosis
Chikungunya
Cholera
Coccidioidomycosis
Dengue
Diphtheria
Giardiasis
Haemorrhagic Fevers
Haemophilus Influenzae Type B
Hantavirus Diseases
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Hepatitis C
Hepatitis E
Histoplasmosis
HIV/AIDS and other sexually-transmitted infections
Human Papillomavirus
Influenza (Avian Influenza/Seasonal Influenza and Influenza A (H1N1)
Japanese Encephalitis
Legionellosis
Leishmaniasis (cutaneous, mucosal and visceral forms)
Leishmaniasis (cutaneous, mucosal and visceral forms)
Leptospirosis (including Weil disease)
Listeriosis
Lyme Borreliosis (Lyme Disease)
Lymphatic Filariasis
Malaria
Measles
Meningococcal Disease
Mumps
Onchocerciasis
Pertussis
Plague
Pneumococcal Disease
Poliomyelitis (Polio)
Rabies
Rotavirus
Rubella
SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome)
Schistosomiasis (Bilharziasis)
Tetanus
Tick-Borne Encephalitis
Trypanosomiasis (African trypanosomiasis (sleeping sickness) / American trypanosomiasis (Chagas disease))
Tuberculosis (TB)
Typhoid Fever
Typhus Fever (Epidemic louse-borne typhus)
Varicella
Yellow Fever
Click to expand...

WHO - Europe
Key messages
•Lyme disease, or Lyme borreliosis (LB), is a bacterial disease transmitted to humans through the bite of infected ticks. It is a common disease in Europe.
•The number of cases in Europe has increased steadily, more than 360 000 cases having been reported over the last two decades.
•Central Europe is the region with the highest incidence of LB, as reported by the Czech Republic, Estonia, Lithuania and Slovenia.
•The risk of LB is reduced by avoiding tick bites.
•The most effective ways of avoiding tick bites include wearing long trousers and long-sleeved shirts, and using repellents on the skin and clothing. The skin should be checked periodically for attached ticks, which should be removed as soon as possible. [but another stuidy finds the nymph form is the most common transmitted of the disease, not the adult tick]
•Typical symptoms include a characteristic skin rash, called erythema migrans, often accompanied by fever, headache and fatigue. Without antibiotic treatment, the infection can spread to the joints, the heart and the nervous system.
• Most cases can be treated successfully with antibiotics taken over several weeks.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Sorry, mete, that you're headed for the IV. I contracted Lyme last Sunday and am on two heavy duty AB's, Doxy and Keflex. My doc also put me on a five day course of Prednisone to help with the irritation of the bite area. My doc thinks some staph was involved with mine also since it was very red and hot to the touch.

Good news is, if caught early, it can be killed. I've had worse things!
 
They didn't do any testing interestingly. Evaluates by two docs who noted the classic bullseye wound. I pulled the seed tick off two weeks prior. It was likely a deer tick larvae. Last Sunday it spread like fire and I sought tx on Tues morn.
 
It would be interesting to learn how native North Americans dealt with ticks traditionally.
 
^ Agreed. I've lived in or near woods my whole life, and have gotten into countless ticks, mites, spiders, you name it. I'm 41 and nobody really even mentioned Lyme's Disease when I was a kid, and now, whammy, one little tick bite later and I've got it!

Hear tell it's related to an over abundance of deer in recent history. You can get I'll be doing my part to help alleviate this problem come October.

I ain't going down to no tick.

Like most things, early detection is the key. Look at the wound pics at the CDC's site. If you start developing a similar wound whether you know you were bitten or not, seek treatment right away and you'll be fine. My rash developed two weeks after removing the tick and disinfecting the bite area -- you'll probably have a little bit of time if on a backcountry excursion and remove a tick or two. Removing them ASAP after they latch minimizes the chances of infection.

Like anything else, self awareness will ultimately save the day and pull you through.
 
Last edited:
The tick is said to need 36 hours on you to transmit Lyme. for about two weeks after tests are not reliable [incubating time]. But the "target " rash is a good sign. Of couirse you have to see the target. A wife /GF is handy there .It seems you have some Docs who know something about it.
 
I've only had two embedded or dug in enough to pull the skin out when taken off, in the last couple of years. Thankfully no bulls eye later. I take them seriously, but maybe a bit more so now after this thread. I heard a while back that they had to be feeding for 24 or so hours before the Lyme risk gets high. Maybe the tick check before shower has worked for us here. Still, I think that I will take this to a higher level of seriousness for now on. Extra simple precautions aren't that much of a pain in the hoop.
 
I had lyme about five years ago. I started feeling very tired, then got a terrible pain in my back. Went to the Doctor, who told me I needed to go to a
chiropractor, which I didn't do. Several weeks or so later the left side of my face totally collapsed, I thought I'd had a stroke. It's a condition known as Bell's Palsy, a sure sign of Lyme disease. To make a long story short, because the Lyme disease went so long before being diagnosed, it turned into Spinal Meningitis. I went through a long, expensive and painful course of medical treatment. Not to mention I had to spend 2 days in the hospital which cost $24,000. Honest!!! Luckily, my insurance paid most of it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top