M.E.U.K. Knives Update

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Mike Turber

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I had a long conversation with Kris Foley of MEUK knives today.

After the conversation we agreed that a radical redesign of his knife is in order. He will do so and submit the blade design for my review. He assured me the next design will not look just like a MAD DOG. It will however retain some of the basic elements of handel construction which was pi0neered by Kevin Hoffman.

So look for his post soon.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
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So, is everything cool with the company? Are they on the level? Do they have all their paperwork in order?

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The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others.


 
Hello Folk`s,

I wish to publicly apologize to the forum members and staff for
any problems MEUK knives may have caused with my M.E.U.K - 1 Prototype.

I also wish to Apologize directly to those members who thought I was having knives made that were trying to Copy the Firm of Mad Dog Knives in anyway, this was not my intention.

I, having reviewed Photos of said Mad Dog Knives Concur, with the assumption
that the M.E.U.K would and has been called a "RIP OFF" copy of a Model by Mad Dog knives.

This has been Brought up to all involved and I herby state and make public that:

M.E.U.K series knives from this point on will have a Profile design Totally
Different from Any Current Production Mad Dog (as this was the Company mentioned).


I will continue to use a Synthetic Micarta, or other. Guard for our Models I am having made,and continue to use the Mortised Tang, or Full Tang construction also.

As we have obtained Conceptual Permission from Kevin Hoffman Knives
to use his original idea of a Synthetic Phenolic Guard. This License Email is available from MEUK on request.

MEUK knives will however Radically change the Profile Shape of Our Series we are having made,to such that it will not be confused with anyone except a genuine MEUK series Knife.

Instead of Taking a Design Prototype made for me as an Original overall design, and researching it to begin with, for which I am at fault, I posted it to soon and opened a can or Worms from a design standpoint. For this again I am sorry.


Paul Davidsons Knife will be Featured with My new design features i am specifying and when I have it in hand I will Scan and send Blade forums a Picture for there input. And then Ship it to Mr.Davidson.


Again Thanks for Understanding My ignorance on this matter.


M.E.U.K Knives



[This message has been edited by MEUK knives (edited 26 October 1999).]
 
Good enough for me.
Welcome Aboard!
Post some pics soon as you can.
I, for one, am fascinated to see what you come up with.

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The individualist without strategy who takes opponents lightly will inevitably become the captive of others.


 
If Kris of MEUK knives is indeed NOT Allan Blade then I owe Kris an apology. And I'll accept Mike Turber's word that such is the case based on his research and phone calls - Mike, for the record, can you confirm on this thread that Kris isn't Allan?

That said: Allan is NOT a bad craftman, and anything he produces need not necessarily be junk. That was never the issue here. As long as he steers clear of Doggish designs he'll be fine; for that matter, Kevin McClung isn't the last word on small utility knives so there's no real *reason* to clone him in that market segment. Medium to big fighters, ya, I can see the point.

Here's a suggestion for Allan: if you're gonna copy something, find something nice that's OLD, as in 19th century or prior, and you can copy as much as you want. Heck, go look up a design called the "Korambit/Kerampit", it's an OLD Indonesian small fighting knife design that's really not being produced in any quality. It's hundreds of years old, knock yourself out copying it, you won't get any complaints. That's just an example. Do *anything* but get the Dog fixation out of your head, OK?

Jim March
 
Jim,

Unless Kris is incredible at diversion he is not Allen Blade.

I talked with him for about an hour and in the conversation I paid close attention to any 3rd or 1st person screw ups. He did neither and at the end of the conversation I even told Kris I was trying to figure out if he was in fact Allen Blade.

I did not ask him to fax his birth certificate
smile.gif


------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Mike, cool...pending further wackyness
wink.gif
that's good enough for me.

Jim
 
First he's a bad guy, then he's a good guy, based on more promises.

Reminds me of the M. Vagnino folder that used the Ken Onion speed safe feature without bothering to see if there was a patent pending (what did he think he was doing?). Dumb beyond belief.

How can someone make a prototype and not realize (jeez, he had no idea?) that it looks like a copy of a MD? Really, no idea at all, never crossed his mind?

But, I guess it's ok cause now he's got his mind right.

Too dumb for words.



------------------
Regards,
Ron Knight

Yeah I'm crazy, but what do you want me to do about it
 
Hello Sirs,

I know its late but i had to be upfront.

Below is an email i answerd from Mr. Spark.

I hope my reply can be looked upon as me just wanting to do my own thing and try to make a Name for me and my MEUK knives.

I have also Redesigned my MEUK knife this time out of my own thoughts. Any way below is
my Responce.

============================================

Subj: Hummmmm....
Date: 10/26/1999 9:50:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: mike@bladeforums.com (BladeForums.com)
To: meukknives@aol.com

Kris,

A couple of questions for you just so my thoughts are clear.

Who is Sara?
How old are you?
Are you Allen Blade's step son?

I need to be clear on this.

Also if a member buys a knife from you and sends the deposit to Rob. What
happens if the knife is not delivered? Don't you think that would create a
problem that Rob would be put in the middle of?

Anyway these are just a few thoughts I had after talking with you. In many
ways I am trying to protect my members and in a round about way, you.
Best Regards,

Mike Turber

BladeForums.com
Owner & Administrator

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============================================
and my reply to mr Spark. and now to all you members.
=============================================

Subj: Re: Hummmmm....
Date: 10/27/1999 12:09:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: MEUKknives
To: mike@bladeforums.com

Hello Sir,


I do not know who a Sara is. As for the Rest I will explain.

I am a 17 yr. old high School student named Kris Foley.

And yes I happen to be Allen blades Stepson, I only told only 3 people this,
Rob simonich, Mike fuller from Tops, and a Mr. David Poth tonight who I met.

I did this because I didn't want my being Allen blades stepson to prejudice people
against me in any way. Because I am my own person.

It was Mr. Simonich`s idea that I could have the Deposit on the Talonite sent directly to him, as he said he has others that do a similar thing.

And i have promiced myself that i will not set any delivery dates that i myself cannot keep on my own.

I know of my stepdads problems in the past with a few people, and I didn't want this to Affect me trying to sell my MEUK knives that was my idea.

I am not asking my Step dad to do anything except Grind the blades for me.
I myself will be putting the handles on and I am going to pay Robert Newton to make
my kydex sheaths.

I Just want to make a name for my idea only by myself, with my Brand labeled on my knives. My Step Dad does not have any say in how I conduct myself with MEUK knives.

I went down today with my mother and Applied and talked to the State about what I wanted to do with my Business life and they thought it was a great idea, so I received
my license, and was told I was a legal business owner on my own.

I would if it would make everyone feel better agree to not take any deposits
except for the Talonite material to Rob simonich. I would also agree to Send the Knife First to any customer, and when they receive it they can send the payment
only to me KRIS FOLEY. I have also set up my own bank account.

I hope you understand not telling anyone about who my Step-dad was
I really want to do this as my business on my own.

I enjoyed talking to you today.

And I hope everyone can let me Prove that I am my own person and a responsible new business owner even if I am young.

I am not doing this to Further anyone's cause except to possibly make a good enough name for my MEUK designs that I can support myself one day.

If this is going to be a problem of me being my own person, and my only fault is having the STEP DAD i have, Then I might as well forget my dreams of being an independent person in the Knife community.


I hope you understand, Kris Foley
 
Well folks there you have it.

I am glad Kris beat me to the punch as I do not like to post emails and I was only going to paraphrase my further investigation on the matter. After a couple of phone calls last night more info about Kris came out and the possibility that he was Allen Blade's step son was also brought up.

I made several recomendations to Kris about how to proceed and the main one that was in my mind at the time was the design of the knife.

Now that this new information has been brought to light I must now rethink how I should proceed and what information the members should know and what further information I should keep confidential.

A back ground investigation was done on Allen Blade. This info led to Kris Foley not being exactly straight forward with me about his relationship with Allen Blade. And for the record Allen Blade is not Allen's real name either. The more I dig the more I find and since there is very little info on Kris I can only offer a suggestion of Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware).

I do aplaud Kris for coming forward with the info, but it now leads to more questions and I just do not have the time nor the patience to play games.

Kris is 17 years of age and has a lot to learn about life and subsequently business. My suggestions is at this point, when you have some knives in stock let us know.

I would not suggest leaving a deposit with him.

He had apparently set up an arrangement with Rob Simonich that Rob would take the deposit which basically covers the cost of the Talonite. We all now Rob and I have the highest regard for him and how he runs his business. I think now that he may be getting himself into a huge can of worms.

What happens if a member never gets their knife?

I am sure Rob would not want to be put into that position and he would of course not be under any obligation to refund the money when he did his part of the deal.

I am not saying that Kris's intentions are to take the money and run. It may also not be fair to judge him by the actions of his step father either.

What I am saying is to all parties concerned be careful.

Remember the facts here folks.

Kris is 17 years old and this is his first business.

He did not get a business license until pressed to do so.

Most start up business go out of business within two years.

Most business with NO start up capital go out of business in months.

Kris is using what amounts to 3 sub contractors to get one knife made.

Kris has not purchased the first piece of Talonite from Rob Simonich.

Kris has no business or marketing plan.

Kris is below the age of 18 and not subject to many laws concerning contracts!

All other thoughts I have call for speculation on my part or the release of highly confidential information, most of which concerns Scott Allen Fowler (AKA Allen Blade) and not Kris.

The truth is out there! Let me know when you find it
smile.gif


------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
...WOW...

Guys,

I'm not familiar with Allen blade. Anyone care to fill me in...?

------------------
Attila
 
This whole situation is like a bad episode of the Twilight Zone.
If the bottom line is that MEUK is being trashed due to the fact that they copied another blademaker's style, what's the major offense? It may not be fair, but it happens. If the original maker patented/copyrighted his design, then that maker should go after anyone that copies it. It's not up to third parties to get involved.

As for MEUK, "Kris Foley"s post sound like complete BS. If that's the writing of a 17 year old, I'll eat my dog's hat. I don't trust anyone that feels the need to publicly post their email when they have a problem with an individual. They sound like they're here to cause a ruckus and gather attention for themselves. "Any attention is better than no attention", ya know?

Now that I got that off my chest, I shall go stand on my lawn and await the arrival of the nice man/lady/whatever in the brown truck to gimme my Sifus!
smile.gif




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Vampire Gerbil: Nosferatus Rodentus Moderatus; similar to a domestic gerbil, except for the odd accent and little black cape.


 
Second to what VG just said, Mike/Jim and others, you have no right to tell MEUK what designs to grind, that is up to the courts to decide. You can of course exercise your own beliefs and I would personally not support anyone copying someone elses design - however telling them they have to change it and enforcing this policy is another matter altogether. There is a a very ugly precedent being set here by this pseudo-enforcement of a nonproven copyright violation.

To be specific, a Moderator and the Admins have shown agressive behavior in acting out against fraud and stating that this is the expected behavior because of the no tolerance policy which will be enforced. This is very risky from a legal standpoint. There is a chance that you could be expected to be held to that and action taken against you for not doing so, and even for doing so.

Don't take my word for this, if possible consult with an actual lawer.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 27 October 1999).]
 
Very true Cliff.

This whole situation seems a bit on the shaky side...but what if our bias' against Scott Blade are ruining his step-sons attempt at a business?

I don't really want that on my shoulders...

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Yes! Drop the burrito...

 
Now waitasec. Two points: Allan Blade is a former Mad Dog employee, and they parted on bad terms. This much is very public info. We also know that Allan has a habit of making flat-out Mad Dog *forgeries* and labeling them on the Mad Dog forum as Mad Dogs. The main incident I'm thinking of happened May of this year.
clone.jpg


That is a Pygmy ATAK, except there's two variations: the tip of the lower guard is pointier, and the grip is overall a bit straighter than standard Dog practice. When I first saw this pic I was taken, I thought it was some sort of Mad Dog prototype. But the MEUK #1 pic proved otherwise; there we had a clear Allan Blade product with a grip more or less identical to the "Brown Pygmy" above.

The upshot is, Allan Blade has a serious Dog fixation. It's a running joke. What was really detestable was trying to use his son-in-law to relabel what was obviously yet another Allan Blade Dog clone.

Kris, I'm sorry I thought you were Allan. I'm *very* sorry you got caught up in Allan's history, but it's important for the people here to understand that history...I'd like to ask all the moderators to NOT close this thread please, this is important. At least check with Mike first.

And Kris, I said it before in private: your willingness to alter the design once all this came to light speaks well of you. I hope you DO get all this off the ground; personally, I'd like to see a Talonite Warncliffe with no lower guard, just an indent for the trigger finger, blade length in the 3" - 4" range. That would make for close to the ultimate in a leatherworker's tool, where Talonite's edgeholding would pay off. To me, Talonite is WAY overkill for a fighter, and it's a fighter that would need a lower guard such as the MEUK1, "Brown Pygmy" or a Mad Dog has. See, Mad Dog has a "fixation" too, a fixation for fighters. Even his utility knives will has small "combat-ready" features. That's fine, but I think for a small Talonite utility knife that may be the wrong direction.

One other thing: at least for the first year or until Kris turns 18, would it help or be possible for his parents to co-sign any purchase/sales agreements, either for Talonite with Rob Simonich or to customers? Could that solve the "contracts with minors are unenforceable" problem? That's the only issue I or anyone else should have with his age. The other option is for Rob to be a more active partner in MEUK for the first year?

Jim March

[This message has been edited by Jim March (edited 27 October 1999).]
 
I didn't really want to get involved in this discussion, but I thought I should bring some things up that have been in my head since this person first posted on these forums.

If you go into the Good,Bad,Ugly forum you will see a post made by MEUK (TooApoint at that time) about how his makers and suppliers are #1 and are all hard working(or something to that effect).

Now excuse me if I am failing to understand this, but how does a 17 year old kid without any business license or any actual knives that are ready to ship or even in the proccess of being made, justify making that statement?

It seems to me that there is a hell of a lot of hype going on here, and quite possibly there is way more here than meets the eye.

As far as "Allan Blade", with all of the facts that are on the table about his past,why would his step-son even attempt to bring him into his business by grinding the blades for his "new" knife company? Not be upfront about it,and when some investigating is done the "Oh Yeah, he's my step-dad" facts come out.

He is also bringing other people into this (Rob Simonich)who might want to take a step back and think about it.

The whole issue smells way too fishy, and as far as I am concerned, if it smells like fish, it probably is fish.

I think the facts speak for themselves, but others will have to make their own decisions. And like others have said, "buyer's beware".

------------------
C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "


[This message has been edited by Jailhack (edited 27 October 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Jailhack (edited 27 October 1999).]
 
Jailhack, one weird aspect to all this is that Allan Blade *is* a good maker! He's annoying as hell, but...it's not *completely* nuts for Kris to work with him. So long as he steers him clear of the Dog fixation, Kris is just maybe the one guy out there Allan *won't* screw over so...it MIGHT work out.

Then again, a better option might be for Kris to spend a year learning to grind and then come back solo!

Jim
 
This is all very interesting. I tried to post on this last night but got continuous error messages.

I tend to agree with Cliff Stamp on a lot of this. I'm going to wait until I get my trivia contest knife before I say too much. I'd like to let the product speak for itself. As far as Kris being young...I know many "adults" that behave like juveniles. I've also known several teenagers that had it all together at a very young age. How old was Bill Gates when he started Microsoft? What kind of software are you running on your PC? Kris has made some mistakes and it sounds like he is learning from them. I'm going to wait until I pass much judgement. Mike's advice of "caveat emptor" is good advice, good advice for dealing with anyone. I've known more than a few people that have been ripped off by well known and well established knife makers. This is certainly a very interesting situation, and only time will tell.

Paul Davidson
 
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