M2 vs. The World?

Crucible also lists M-2 as having 4.15% chromium. Here's the whole listing:

C 0.85
Cr 4.15
V 1.95
W 6.40
Mo 5.00
S 0.03

Ignoring the "high speed" property of M-2 for a moment (we all agree it's not necessary for cutlery), it's still an interesting steel. Plenty of carbide formers (W,V, Mo and Cr) account for the excellent edge-holding M-2 has. I haven't tested an M-2 and A-2 blade head-to-head, but my sense just from playing with them is that M-2 holds a better edge. A-2 may be tougher, but if we're talking about folder blades, M-2 seems easily tough enough.

I'm not arguing that M-2 is the optimum folder steel. But the proof, ultimately, is in use. And BM's M-2 blades have proven themselves wonderfully in my opinion. Almost wish they'd a taken those blades even harder.

The most interesting tool steel to me at the moment is D-2. It holds an edge well, is tough enough, and is probably rust-resistant enough that it won't have to be protected with one of those dreadful coatings. Kabar just came out with a line of D-2 folders; unfortunately, they're liner locks.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
I went to great pains not to try to say anything more conclusive than that Benchmade's M-2 blades beat the heck out of their own ATS-34 blades.

M-2 as it comes coated from Benchmade is not a rust problem. I have used the knife in lots of "normal", but damp and salty conditions, hiking and camping, and I have had no problems keeping rust off of the edge. I do keep my knives fairly clean, and the pivots lubed. In the test, I tried to get the dumb thing to rust, spent two very damp and uncomfortable days using it on everything from food prep to shelter building in what I considered corrosive conditions for a non-stainless blade, and did not succede. Any more extreme test would be completely "bogus", since anyone who works in worse conditions, or doesn't take care of their knives, better carry stainless, as no other tool steel, or low alloy steel, would be likely to fare any better.

I couldn't fairly evaluate the toughness of the Military's CPM440V blade against the AFCKs because its tip was so much thicker. I used all three knives to cut up a bunch of telco cables and chopped up some connectors too. The edges of the three knives suffered about equally as I recall. M-2 at lower hardness (Benchmade claimed 61 RcH at the time), should be somewhat tougher than CPM440V on paper. M-2 as it comes from Benchmade is not brittle at all.

M-2 is not wonder steel, it is just one of the better choices available. It should be on par with BG-42 in performance, except for stain resistance. If you have only normal need for stain resistance, coated M-2 beats the heck out of any production ATS-34 I've seen. There are still very few custom knife makers who offer "tactical" folders (meaning big and strong) made out of anything other than stainless steels.

EDI and Mission are coming out with A-2 blades. Those should be the equal or better of Benchmade's M-2 depending on heat treatment. Mark Boyer was making a folder out of powder coated 1095. A few custom makers will make you a folder blade out of O-1, but not many. 52100 isn't in the catalog. I think BT2 coated M-2 is still one of the better available choices in a folder blade, though my first choice now would be CPM420V.

Harv
 
Thank you very much, Mr. Harvey. I didn't know that you were the same Mr. Harvey who wrote that review. Cool.

The topic kind of got off track from my original question. All I was asking was if the BM Axis Lock in M2 was a better tactical folder than anything else BM makes, including the ATS-34 Axis Lock? Yes, part, maybe much, of the debate centers around the blade steel, but I think that the other features of this knife, like the lock, make it stand out more than any other. I like the M2 report, and I have limited experience with other tool steels, so I "hyped" the Axis Lock with M2.

To sum it up: what blade steel would you pick to make the Axis Lock even better--M2, A2, D2, CPM-4xx (how's 420 better?).

Thanks for all the great input.

EK
 
3V is where I would be going now if I was concerned about toughness as it still has high wear resistance. Its what I would want on the Axis lock. On paper, 3V has twice the impact toughness of M2 when hardened to get the same wear resistance. It would not rate as good as M2 in terms of red hardness but that is of little (no?) value in a knife steel.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 27 May 1999).]
 
It would not rate as good as M2 in terms of red hardness but that is of little (no?) value in a knife steel.
Click to expand...

Huh? What is "red" hardness?

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Work hard, play hard, live long.
Outlaw_Dogboy

 
The alloy mix in M-2 is designed to let the steel keep its hardness even at high temperature -- that's what makes it a "high-speed steel". Tungsten combined with moly and/or chromium is what's used for this.

By the time a steel is turning colors ("red hardness"), you are essentially laying down a new heat treat -- and probably ruining the steel as a cutlery piece. With a high-speed steel, you can keep the temper at a higher temperature.

As Cliff said, this is important for, say, high-speed drill bits, but not as important for cutlery.
 
Thanks Joe. Makes sense that it is useless in regards to knife blades.
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Work hard, play hard, live long.
Outlaw_Dogboy

 
Red hardness was one of the design criteria for ATS-34 too I believe, as it was created to rocket engine ducts for something like that. BG-42 and 52100 are for bearings, but they still make a good knife.

ekaagan,

If you are hoping to get an M-2 Axis, you and I are just going to have to wait and see if Benchmade makes any. Last I heard, Benchmade had no immediate plans to do so.

The 800HS AFCK is still a good knife though. I just picked up an M-2 Stryker (yes, a liner-lock, just for testing purposes, ahem) and it is a tough little cutting tool.

Harv
 
Steve, BM's '99 catalog lists both the AFCK and mini-AFCK as available in M2. As well as the 910 and 905. 'Course, it doesn't say exactly when in '99.

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Work hard, play hard, live long.
Outlaw_Dogboy



[This message has been edited by Outlaw_Dogboy (edited 28 May 1999).]
 
High heat tolerance is a handy thing to have in a knife blade that you decide to modify, polish, or sharpen with power tools after it's heat treated.

Don't tell Benchmade's warranty people I said that.
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The 910, 800, and 812 are now being delivered in M2.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
 
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