M43 - handle shortening - Should I?

wow, thats some nice wood work:)
do you think it feels lighter and quicker in the hand after sanding down the handle?
thanks
 
Boerboel!

Definitely! The fitness significantly affect the feel. The knife feels lighter and easier to control.

I already made an analysis in which I break down to wrist force and arm force. I found it interesting. Will post to share with you guys once completed the writings.
 
thank you, im thinking about doing the same on my grs 22" (it might fell a bit lighter:p)
but im afraid it wount look as good as yours:p
again..realy good woork hung:)
 
Awesome stuff dude! What did you use to finish it? It looks very nice.
Oh, and that's satisal wood - the grain gives it away. Kind of rare to see it in that tan/yellow color but it happens. My old WW2 is very similar. Reds, dark browns and purples seem to be more common for satisal
 
Nice work on new handle, thank you for sharing
 
@ Boerboel: Think carefully of the steps to be done. You can seek advice from the mates here, then go ahead and do it. I was also scared for the first few projects.

@ Killa: Firstly, I just sand it off with 400 grit, then 800 grit, 1000 grit, then a light buff with a very little candle wax. It shines itself.
 
....
2 lighten the blade - What I have done with several HI pieces is to use a belt-sander to round and reduce the spine. I have found that to be very effective, and also you can proceed gradually to find out if you like the effect or not. HI tools generally have thicker spines than necessary to ensure appropriate strength. This will result in a nimbler tool but the handle will still be longer than you might choose if it was custom-built for you.

...Then start by rounding the spine, which will reduce a little metal, and see how that feels. If an improvement, you can keep reducing until you find the perfect balance.

I have done exactly this to several HI knives with great results!

Can you please post some pics, or may be a "walk through" for the spine reduction bit.
I also have this "heavy" problem:) and was wondering what will happen if I reduced / slimmed the spine a bit.
 
Hung, every time I see something you make then read how you say you don't have the tools to do this stuff, I have to kick myself because I do have the tools and I don't do this stuff. You are making me feel lazy. :D The work you did on that handle is amazing. The Hmong Knife is stunningly beautiful, in fact I haven't seen any of your work that I wasn't impressed with yet. I hope I can do as well with the tools as you do without them. God Bless you Hung! You are an inspiration!
 
Can you please post some pics, or may be a "walk through" for the spine reduction bit.
I also have this "heavy" problem:) and was wondering what will happen if I reduced / slimmed the spine a bit.

I have a bad habit of not taking picture when I work, though taking pix is my second hobby. Let me just put down a quick guide for you here:

1. PLANNING:
Firstly measure the current handle. I often measure the width and thickness in 02 places, in here I called the "first rivet" and "second rivet" as those places are crucial to me. They form the curve/ergonomic for the whole handle. Then work out how much the tang you should shave off. I think every one of us need to know by heart their handle size, it's similar to the size of our shoes, or pants or shirt. A good source of reference is other HI handle. Choose the one you are most comfortable with to get the dimensions. Then I use an a marker pen to draw the area I need to shave off, both in thickness and width. Do ensure the ergo for the best grip.

2. SHAVING
It's best to go with a belt sander but I cant find it here. Shipping from US to VN is mad. I thought of a kind of contraption of using the small belt sander used for wood with 36" belt but haven't tried. It looks weird. I just use a machine I called the hand grinder with a 4" 120 grit sanding disc. You can have a look at this tool in page 1 of this thread.

Shaving top & bottom line:
I keep the sanding disc 90 degree to the metal tang, then I drag bit along the curve, from pommel towards bolster. But always bear in mind of never shave the tang near the bolster in bottom line. It must be kept the same. The tang here need to be about 2mm more prominent than the bolster. Shave few strokes, take a short rest, shave few strokes, take a short rest,… repeat until you get to the desired depth.

Please always bear in mind when shaving top line and bottom line, this means you are shaving an "in-consistent material", consisting of wood and metal. One part is hard, one part is softer. There is a high risk that with the same pressure, the sanding disc eats deeper into the wood scales than in the metal tang. Then always keep the disc square 90 degrees to the tang. I did a few test with my hand grinder to check if the shave is even. Thanks to high speed, it cuts the wood slab and the metal tang at the same depth, then I confidently proceed to shave further. Do it bit by bit, little by little. Haste makes waste. You are working on a finished product. One step wrong you will ruin the whole thing. Take a deep breath, take a sip of tea, pet your dog, sms your girl friend,… then continue to shave. If you shave too hard, the metal tang might get hot. The part of slab next to the tang would be burnt into coal & look ugly. You don’t want it to be ugly, do you?

Shaving slabs:
First of all, I would like to thank OldSchool for his experience he shared while re-handling his CAK. Learning from him that I know big diameter Alu rivet stock can hardly be found. I often steal some alu clothes hanger from my wife for the rivets. Her clothes hanger hook keeps becoming shorter but she doesn't know why. :):):). But for the case of this M43, the diameter of alu clothes hanger is way too small, then I don't bother her this time. Then I need to play some trick here. I just shave down the wood part. I did not shave the area near the rivet, later, I used a file to file off the wood part around the rivet to the desired depth. You can see the rivet is about 2.5mm prominent in the pix in page 1.

You need to use a piece of 180 grit sand paper to make the slab even, esp. the part around the rivet before peening. Peening an uneven slab is really hard to fix later on, even my dad cant!:):):)

3. PEENING RIVETS
I just used a very small hammer, you can see in the pix. It was lying somewhere on the floor, next to the horn handle of the HI Friendship knife (another project I was working on, too). I used such small hammer just to better control the force. Firstly, hammer the outer ring first. I don’t hammer in the center of the rivet. Then I could bring the rivet to kind of cornical shaped. The anvil is a piece of steel. Do it slowly and keep the hammer force even. When the force are even, the rivet would be mushroomed in a round shape. If you hammer in the center too soon, while the outer ring is not even, it might make the rivet become odd shaped.

After peening, shave the excess part of the rivet down until you have about a hair line left from the surface of wood slab. At this stage, never use rough tools. You are arriving at finishing stage.

4. FINISHING:
I used a fine file to file off all the excess part of spine, wood and rivet, then use a piece of 250 grit sand paper to do the finetunings. Until here, you already have a villager-finished handle.

Look again, right at this stage, the rivet is not round for sure. It’s in a shape that is close to a circle, not a real circle. Then we need a trick here. I used the karda to cut the odd part in the outer ring of the rivet to bring it into a circle. This part is really thin and small and wont affect the holding ability of the rivet. Make sure 4 circles are equal. Would be ugly with one big two small, the other in between. :p:p:p. Then fill up the tiny gaps around the rivets with super glue.

Then sand off the whole handle with 400 grit sand paper. The metal spine can arrive at a satin finish with 400 grit sand paper, too. Increase to 800 grit, 1000 grit, the wood shines itself.

Good luck guys!
 
Hung, every time I see something you make then read how you say you don't have the tools to do this stuff, I have to kick myself because I do have the tools and I don't do this stuff. You are making me feel lazy. :D The work you did on that handle is amazing. The Hmong Knife is stunningly beautiful, in fact I haven't seen any of your work that I wasn't impressed with yet. I hope I can do as well with the tools as you do without them. God Bless you Hung! You are an inspiration!

Warty,

Thanks for your encouragement. This kind of work is paid $5 a day here. Most of the kids of my generation grown up in the countryside have to know to do these kinds of work. When I was young, we did not have money for toys. We kids had to make our own toys. In weekend, I did not have cinema or water park. Hanging around the village blacksmith, carpenter, clock smith,... were my entertainment. I learn the skills from them.

When I was in Bali - Indonesia in June this year, I happened to see these 02 kids making kite out of a piece of plastic bag and some bamboo stick. There is no glue. He used an incense stick to melt the plastic and glue them together. They are about 5 or 6 years old. Cute kids. This reminds me of my childhood... Sharing with you here...


DSC08856makingkite.jpg
 
While not quite as stark, it reminds me of mine too. I tended to make my own amusements when I was young rather than buy them. I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere and my nearest friends from school were miles and miles away. So I was pretty much on my own when it came to amusing myself. I spent hours and hours in the woods, camping, fishing and just making believe I was somewhere else until it was time to go back and do the rest of my chores.

Those two little guy are cuties, they look like mischief waiting to happen. :)
 
Heh, I used to prowl the woods as a kid (grew up in the middle of nowhere with no electricity for many years), pretending to be Daniel Boone, or one of the guys on the Lewis & Clarke expedition, etc.

People tell me I had a sad childhood because I didn't have a lot of expensive toys, but I loved it, and those are the best memories of my life.
 
Thanks Hung for the detailed walk-through.
I have two over-sized handles to deal with now, so this will diffidently help.
Not underestimating the encouragement factor...if others can and have done it is easier to begin.
I'll post pics some day...hope it goes well.
There's no denying...you did excellent work on that handle:thumbup:
 
@DanSmithy: Yes! Let's go ahead do it! I can help you along the way via email. It's easy job.

@Warty & CPL: It's nice waking up some lovely childhood memories among us. My childhood was tough as well, but now when I look back, I was lucky enough to have one.
 
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