I've trained in "close combat" with the US Marines, US Army Paratroops, US Army Rangers, US Navy SEALS, and British SBS (and their Australian counterparts), as well as with such stunt luminaries as Anthony DeLongis (btw, my invocation of those groups and individuals does not - and should not be construed to suggest that they agree or share my opinions - they are offered solely as an assist for judging my competence and the basis of my comments). That said, as a combat tomahawk, I consider the M48 design to be, far and away, the best - the SOG option is not even in the same class. The SOG blade form does offer a few advantages in a utilitarian mode, but it is deficient as a combat weapon. I keep two edged weapons (if you don't count my "Leatherman", which should be on everyone's "always carry list") in my "combat load" - one is a Ka-Bar style fighting/utility knife (again, far superior in almost all roles to any other general purpose knife) and an M48 (where weight and mission considerations allow). I've not had cause to change that basic load since the M48 came out. I have yet to find a decent machete which does all that I require, but I noticed that "Sportsmans Guide" offers a "cane knife" which comes close. It would take relatively little change to make it a truly competent all-purpose piece of survival gear.
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M48 vs Fusion Tactical Tomahawk... ?
- Thread starter BePrepared
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The M48 I've used snapped at the tang for just normal throwing. Another member here had his snap somewhere near the handle.
(Re: SOC's comment, supra.): I, too, am not a fan of the "bolted on" design which, unfortunately, is common to both the M48 and the SOG Fusion. The older, Viet Nam era tomahawk was integrally formed - head and handle being a single piece of steel. An M48 style axe head with similar construction for the haft would be preferable. Until such an option is offered, however, I remain convinced of the M48's superiority.
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There's plenty of other "full tang" or integral tomahawks available right now. Plenty of them are breachers, they can be heavy, have thicker edges, and not so great at fighting or chopping wood. There are a few that are purpose built fighters that put the M48 to shame. The M48 is a cheap intro level hawk just like the SOG offerings, put out to the masses just for a quick sale. I waited two years to get my first Winkler, they are expensive, but nothing else compares to their weight and mass distribution. No other integral hawks have a tapered tang, nor a felt lined kydex carrier, they are very quiet, for stealth, and they don't scratch up your hawk head.
Here's a list off the top of my head....of full tang hawks...
Ranger RD Hawk
Browning Black Label Shock N Awe Tomahawk
Benchmade has a breaching full tang hawk
K5 Tactical tomahawks
GG&G Battlehawk, yeah it weights 44oz
Self Reliance Tools/Omnivore Blade works
RMJ Tactical
Winkler Knives 2, check out the Sayoc RnD, here it is with my Winkler 2 Camp Axe and my RMJ Jenny Wren...
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Oh yeah, don't forget that you can also have a full tang hawk made, JK knives has several offerings. At one time, he was taking custom orders, not so much now. Scott Rousch has also made a forged full tang hawk, and takes custom orders. Dan Winkler has been known to take requests to alter or modify his current models.
I'm just saying there's lots of integral hawks to be had, if you want to spend the money on a real tool or weapon. I admit, for most folks the idea of spending $300 to $900 on one tomahawk is way too much. Even for a modern soldier, a $400 RMJ is very expensive, yet RMJ keeps making hawks. Lot's of these hawks are meant to be used, in modern combat theater. They are purpose built for hard use, from fighting to breaching, throwing to puncturing tires, and breaking glass or cutting though cinderblock walls.
I'm just saying there's lots of integral hawks to be had, if you want to spend the money on a real tool or weapon. I admit, for most folks the idea of spending $300 to $900 on one tomahawk is way too much. Even for a modern soldier, a $400 RMJ is very expensive, yet RMJ keeps making hawks. Lot's of these hawks are meant to be used, in modern combat theater. They are purpose built for hard use, from fighting to breaching, throwing to puncturing tires, and breaking glass or cutting though cinderblock walls.
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- May 13, 2013
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ya know, I just read online that SOG's 420 stainless steel can shatter at sub-zero temps. Even as a devoted Fusion fan, it's something to think about in the woods...
Also though, no one ever seems to realize this but if you pull free your 'hawk by the head, with the finger holes, you really improve the longevity at the connection as opposed to prying it loose all the time - it should help/solve your snapping issue!
Also though, no one ever seems to realize this but if you pull free your 'hawk by the head, with the finger holes, you really improve the longevity at the connection as opposed to prying it loose all the time - it should help/solve your snapping issue!
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I apologize in advance..... United Cutlery makes the M48. But I seen a SOG M48 for sale which has to be the same hawk. It's exactly the same. What's up?
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Did you see it on eBay? Pretty sure it's just the seller not knowing what they have. Misprint.
I'm a fan of Swamp Rat knives. Haven't had a chance to handle their hawks, but I like their knives. Here is a link to their "Rattle Hawk" which fits the bill, IMO.
http://www.swampratknifeworks.com/rattle-hawk/
CRKT now offers full tang hawks, as does Condor. No lack of finding them on the web when you surf images, not pages.
One way to rate a hawk for it's potential ability to take abuse is to consider it as a tool. Very few tools made that are used for impact, cutting, prying, or hammering have the operating end bolted to the handle. Yes, there are a lot of axes and hammers with the hande inserted thru a hole in the tool, but it's meant to be a wedge fit, either tapered to prevent it flying off, or expanded expanded and held spread in the tool head. Prying tools are almost 100% integral, cutting tools that are used with impact are full tang. Very few bolted, it's considered a weak joint capable of failing.
It might also be noted a lot of hawk owners using traditional wood handles like to boast they can easily replace it in the field. That required it to be broken, which is usually not good, and also can be difficult - not every environment offers appropriate vegetation. It should also be noted that some makers no longer offer wood handles and have moved to polyresin materials with reinforcement. While the hawk with separate handle might be offered to our troops as a rescue tool, integral hawks that are one piece are the choice for those who cannot afford to have their equipment fail on the job. Those highly trained small units will set the pace and their choices will eventually affect the market top to bottom.
One way to rate a hawk for it's potential ability to take abuse is to consider it as a tool. Very few tools made that are used for impact, cutting, prying, or hammering have the operating end bolted to the handle. Yes, there are a lot of axes and hammers with the hande inserted thru a hole in the tool, but it's meant to be a wedge fit, either tapered to prevent it flying off, or expanded expanded and held spread in the tool head. Prying tools are almost 100% integral, cutting tools that are used with impact are full tang. Very few bolted, it's considered a weak joint capable of failing.
It might also be noted a lot of hawk owners using traditional wood handles like to boast they can easily replace it in the field. That required it to be broken, which is usually not good, and also can be difficult - not every environment offers appropriate vegetation. It should also be noted that some makers no longer offer wood handles and have moved to polyresin materials with reinforcement. While the hawk with separate handle might be offered to our troops as a rescue tool, integral hawks that are one piece are the choice for those who cannot afford to have their equipment fail on the job. Those highly trained small units will set the pace and their choices will eventually affect the market top to bottom.
After I posted last night, saw a pic that linked back to this subforum surfing the web. UC broke off just above the finger swell. Could it happen to nearly any hawk or knife, sure. Plenty of video of people beating on their edged tools and them breaking, too. Same for me, bought a brick hammer, lasted about ten minutes, snapped a new hickory handle. I bought a fiberglas Nupla and repaired it, still going strong.
As a fun toy, sure, get all the UC's you want, as reported here and in other threads, owners have beat on them long and hard. If that is all you need, likely it will put up with it. If you can't afford to be without it, tho, the integral handle is the standard now - just like hammers at the lumberyard.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/994677-United-M48-Tomahawk-FAIL!
As a fun toy, sure, get all the UC's you want, as reported here and in other threads, owners have beat on them long and hard. If that is all you need, likely it will put up with it. If you can't afford to be without it, tho, the integral handle is the standard now - just like hammers at the lumberyard.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/994677-United-M48-Tomahawk-FAIL!
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I wonder if it would be a good idea for the M48 to sharpen the backside of the beard and just the "swing" of the top? Also the spike under and same length on the top? It would truly be a scary tomahawk. But would it work out, thinking of heat treatment and so?