Machax - Cincinnati #20 vs Kabar 2012 Stamped

[Bladite]

ever wonder what the difference are from old and new?

really? yah, right

well, i took the handles off a nearly 30 yo Cincinnati Machax (#20 written on handle? mmm) and traced out...

then did the same with a Kabar 2012 stamped model overlayed on the CinCinn...

weighed the naked blades. measured thickness too. length too, indirectly via graph paper at 1/4 inch squares...

results?

full size, for the morbidly curious: http://perspicuityphotos.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Beckers/i-GkZXCnR/0/O/9026-crop.jpg

for those not into looking at the picture, and reading my handwritiing...

+ bolt holes the same, major top angles and dog leg the same...

+ CinCinn is about 1/4 inch longer, and had a bit more belly up front; (more in handle too)
Funny note: the CinCinn bolt hardware is parkerized apparently, and the outer bolts (#1 and #3) are ground down and thus shorter than #2! don't mix them up!
As well, they appear to have been coated after grinding!
Handle material is Estaloc, and isn't 1:1 with the new handles.

+ KaBar has the pommel of course; and two cut outs in the handle naturally; there's small swedge at the front angle, making it more like a Warrior model of old, but that takes away forward weight as well.

+ CinCinn #20: 0.2180 thick (phosphate coated) and 17.0 ounces

+ KaBar 2012: 0.1950 thick (with smooth coating) and 12.75 ounces

0.023 inches DIFFERENT!

4.25 ounces DIFFERENT! the CinCinn is heavier and more forward weighted esp.

+ for Science!


discuss!!!

 

[C_Tanner]

Machaxtard=You.



I'm just playin' Bladite. You DO have quite the collection though. I'm waiting for the double ended Machax....Darth Maul style.

You have a photo of the two, side by side?

 

[flipaldinho]

Thanks for the info. That's neat to know. Your knowledge is ever so inspiring.

 

[Bladite]

Machaxtard=You.
...
You have a photo of the two, side by side?

i did the same style drawing for the 3 generations of the Magnum Camp, it shows a bit of difference...

for this one, i didn't bother with the Camillus model

good old #20 is the second from the bottom here. for our purposes, you can pretend the top one is a KaBar (it's not, it's Camillus), but the idea is there.

nearly 5 ounces of differences in weight? that's huge!

 

[C_Tanner]

i did the same style drawing for the 3 generations of the Magnum Camp, it shows a bit of difference...

for this one, i didn't bother with the Camillus model

good old #20 is the second from the bottom here. for our purposes, you can pretend the top one is a KaBar (it's not, it's Camillus), but the idea is there.

nearly 5 ounces of differences in weight? that's huge!

Fixed it. IMG code missing some parts. That second one has a wicked tip on it!

 

[The Warrior]

That's awesome.

 

[Skystorm]

I was going to do this when I had time. I do like the weight of the cincinn better than the new ones, It also chops better to my totally unscientific self. Not that the new ones don't chop like fiends. Now I understand where these extra short bolts came from, that gave me a headache one day when I had a pile of bolts and a few shorties in there.

 

[cbwoods67]

Thanks for the information, Bladite.
I had no idea that there was that much difference in weight. Should have paid more attention in the database.
Have you used this one?
If so, is there a noticeable difference in choppiness?

 

[Chameleonbear]

That is cool man... Are there other versions also? (Blackjack, Effingham?)

 

[Nsvens89]

Very cool, anyone else notice how Bladite makes his K's the exact same way they are in the BK&T logo Kind of like a Y or a V with a leg? Eh probably just me oh well. Regardless I like seeing the exact changes!

 

[Bladite]

That is cool man... Are there other versions also? (Blackjack, Effingham?)

yup

top to bottom:

+ Camillus

+ Machax Warrior with hard chrome coating; there were also phosphate coated ones (more rare?)

+ Machax with hard chrome coating

+ Machax with a strange gold coating/hue

+ Machax with phosphate coating

+ Machax with epoxy coating, sterile, late Blackjack

as for historical order, on coatings, other than Camillus, and the obvious epoxy model, the middle 4? i don't remember which came first, chrome or phosphate

 

[cbwoods67]

Very cool, anyone else notice how Bladite makes his K's the exact same way they are in the BK&T logo Kind of like a Y or a V with a leg? Eh probably just me oh well. Regardless I like seeing the exact changes!

He's probably left-handed. Those people are always doing strange things.

 

[Bladite]

He's probably left-handed. Those people are always doing strange things.

it's Comic Sans and i'm not left handed :>

 

[cbwoods67]

it's Comic Sans and i'm not left handed :>

Just when I thought I had an explanation for the enigma that is you.
Oh well.
Either way, thanks for putting this together. Your wealth of knowledge has learned many curious people of this forum.

 

[Chameleonbear]

Why would the "Warrior" version be the most shiny?!? I would think that version should be the most discrete. That is of course my opinion. Very cool none-the-less.


That post is strangely familiar too.... Like I've seen it before. Maybe in some sort of database. But then again, who would make a database of blades...

 

[oXide]

Why would the "Warrior" version be the most shiny?!? I would think that version should be the most discrete. That is of course my opinion. Very cool none-the-less.

No, the discrete version is called combat, warriors liked shiny things, combatants do not....

 

[Bladite]

Why would the "Warrior" version be the most shiny?!? I would think that version should be the most discrete. That is of course my opinion. Very cool none-the-less.

That post is strangely familiar too.... Like I've seen it before. Maybe in some sort of database. But then again, who would make a database of blades...

the chromed one would be great in salt water. could be blackened with soot if need be.

the phosphated blade is of course, nice and matte and very dark. not sure how well it resists salt water.

 

[FAL'ER]

They also did make that Warrior model in a black phosphate.

 

[BRL]

this is epic learningedness! I have been smartulized today thanks to you Bladdy! Really interesting stuff.

 

[FAL'ER]

i'd also like to add that after getting to use my natti machaxe all day thursday at becker west for all sorts of firewood processing and pitchwood harvesting as well as in the chopping contest it is a better chopper than the new version, which I also got to use at the chopping station. I would say it's better because of the weight and the grind. That being said i still want one of the new ones because of the lighter weight.