Machete edges: toothy or polished?

[FortyTwoBlades]

Did you ever clean new fishing spot on river bank ? Do that and you will understand , you will hit more rock and soil then grass , branches ......

Yes. And worse. As previously mentioned, I live in a state made out of granite, on an island made out of more granite. We have SO much rock here. But I swing my machetes where the rocks aren't. Here's the very simple secret recipe to avoiding rocks:

•Look where you'll be swinging.
•Think about the path your stroke will take at the target and where the blade will pass after making the cut.
•If there are obstructions, clear them or use a stroke that avoids them.
•Don't miss.
•Make sure to think about how the cut could go wrong, and be prepared for those possible outcomes.
•If you have an idea of the work conditions before heading to the site, pack a model that's as tailored to that context as is reasonably possible.

Follow those steps and the number of rocks you'll hit are few and far between. A single impact with one rock can crumple your edge and you'll lose a minimum of several minutes to that careless blow even if you have a nearby workshop with a belt grinder handy, let alone if you're relying on a file to undo the damage. It's very worth taking the trivial amount of time to analyze your targets and environments before taking each swing.

 

[Natlek]

I think , I look , but that don t help .I need to cut them flat with the ground otherwise we would fell on every step, especially at night

 

[killgar]

I suppose it depends on what your trying to accomplish with a machete.

As I mentioned, when I was a teen I (and a bunch of other guys) had a job clearing entire hillsides outside the city in the rural parts of the county (what we referred to as "the boonies"), actual wilderness where people chose to have houses built (only dirt roads). I'm talking about brush so thick you couldn't walk through it. We were expected to clear a certain amount of land each day, no time for careful, precise cutting, not if we wanted to get paid at the end of the day and have a job the next day.

Nor were we supplied with a variety of the perfect tools (I had to bring my own machete).

And when I say "clear", I mean CLEAR. Every bush, every blade of grass, at ground level. When we showed up for work in the morning we had an entire hillside covered in thick, tall brush in front of us. And when we left at the end of the day the same hillside was nothing but dirt and rocks. Not so much as a single foxtail or dandelion left standing. Then the next day we had to remove any rocks that we could lift. Then others would install irrigation systems, then iceplant would be planted to prevent erosion.

So yeah, we sometimes hit some rocks. Whether the brush was growing up out of rocks, or we had to cut stalks that were growing up against boulders, or there were rocks just below the dirt where we were cutting. And yet, despite occasionally hitting rocks our machetes were not rendered useless, and we were still able to get the work done.

But we weren't perfect. We weren't surgical in the use of our machetes as some claim to be. Like I said, we were more concerned with getting the work done, on time, getting paid, and keeping our jobs. And we were willing to sacrifice the edges of our cheap machetes to do it. After all, they were easy enough to resharpen at lunch.

Some of the posts in this thread remind me of people who say that they've never dropped a knife, or never cut themselves with a knife. Yeah, right, whatever you say.

I've never met anyone who was perfect. I've only read about them on the internet .

 

[Wild Willie]

I use an 8 inch flat file on my machetes, every now and then I'll put them to the manticore or American mutt. Mine are mostly used in hedgerows and along chain link fence when doing a reclaim job. I'd rather take the 40 seconds to run a file over it than hump back to the truck to sharpen a power saw. As far as sharpening in situ, I just hold the spine about half way up the blade and do my thing. It works pretty well this far...

 

[kreisler]

What exactly is a toothy edge?

Spyderco PM2 (and also STANLEY utility blades) comes with a bevel which has a perfectly straight apex line (like a laser beam). However, the bevel faces have grinding marks (360 grit). Do you mean such a rough finish with "toothy edge"?

Or do you mean with "toothy edge" an apex which is zig-zaggy like the teeth of a metal saw blade? Btw, a zig-zaggy edge might still be called "an edge" but not an apex anymore.

Anyway, does the term "toothy edge" refer rather to the two bevel faces or to the "apex"?

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Interesting mix of replies. The Arctic Fox edge I default to is pretty much in the middle.

E eKretz and T TwinStick have you had any problems going as fine as you do? Vegetation that the machete slides off of or requires requires a really fast swing? I got a parang for Christmas that I haven't used yet; I am going to try a higher grit finish on it as it seems most likely to benefit from it.

R Reallybigmonkey1 what grit of diamond do you use for final roughening of your long machetes?

oldmanwilly I intend to get a Bull Thistle to complement my Arctic Fox stone. Have you tried the Arctic Fox?

K kreisler I meant the apex. I see no reason to intentionally leave a rough finish on the bevels as that only increases drag in most materials. By the way I don't consider #360 rough—that's a nice satin finish. The bevels on Imacasa machetes are roughed in with something much coarser.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I suppose it depends on what your trying to accomplish with a machete.

As I mentioned, when I was a teen I (and a bunch of other guys) had a job clearing entire hillsides outside the city in the rural parts of the county (what we referred to as "the boonies"), actual wilderness where people chose to have houses built (only dirt roads). I'm talking about brush so thick you couldn't walk through it. We were expected to clear a certain amount of land each day, no time for careful, precise cutting, not if we wanted to get paid at the end of the day and have a job the next day.

Nor were we supplied with a variety of the perfect tools (I had to bring my own machete).

And when I say "clear", I mean CLEAR. Every bush, every blade of grass, at ground level. When we showed up for work in the morning we had an entire hillside covered in thick, tall brush in front of us. And when we left at the end of the day the same hillside was nothing but dirt and rocks. Not so much as a single foxtail or dandelion left standing. Then the next day we had to remove any rocks that we could lift. Then others would install irrigation systems, then iceplant would be planted to prevent erosion.

So yeah, we sometimes hit some rocks. Whether the brush was growing up out of rocks, or we had to cut stalks that were growing up against boulders, or there were rocks just below the dirt where we were cutting. And yet, despite occasionally hitting rocks our machetes were not rendered useless, and we were still able to get the work done.

But we weren't perfect. We weren't surgical in the use of our machetes as some claim to be. Like I said, we were more concerned with getting the work done, on time, getting paid, and keeping our jobs. And we were willing to sacrifice the edges of our cheap machetes to do it. After all, they were easy enough to resharpen at lunch.

Some of the posts in this thread remind me of people who say that they've never dropped a knife, or never cut themselves with a knife. Yeah, right, whatever you say.

I've never met anyone who was perfect. I've only read about them on the internet .

I don't see where anyone said you had to be surgical or perfect. Nor do the steps I described take much additional time, and actually saves time compared to that spent fixing damaged edges.

Once you know how machetes cut most effectively on what kinds of growth you can rapidly tell what approaches will be best for the given context. You don't have to spend ten minutes assessing each cut, it's more like looking at a screw to see what kind of driver it takes before grabbing a random one out of your toolbox, or even if it's actually a nail instead. One quick glance and you have the info you need. If the path of a swing is likely to put the edge at risk...either the cut doesn't need to be made in the first place because it's somewhere you can't step anyway, or else there will be certain angles that will take the blade away from those obstructions instead, or you can employ pulled blows and won't carry through the target and into the obstruction. Cutting into the dirt is even preferred to cutting into solid rocks--the touchups for the edge will be much easier compared to a rock-damaged edge.

When kept properly sharp and thin you can make a lot of cuts on even very thick targets with very little force. This reduces the likelihood of a wild strike hitting something it shouldn't.

 

[eKretz]

I suppose it depends on what your trying to accomplish with a machete.

As I mentioned, when I was a teen I (and a bunch of other guys) had a job clearing entire hillsides outside the city in the rural parts of the county (what we referred to as "the boonies"), actual wilderness where people chose to have houses built (only dirt roads). I'm talking about brush so thick you couldn't walk through it. We were expected to clear a certain amount of land each day, no time for careful, precise cutting, not if we wanted to get paid at the end of the day and have a job the next day.

Nor were we supplied with a variety of the perfect tools (I had to bring my own machete).

And when I say "clear", I mean CLEAR. Every bush, every blade of grass, at ground level. When we showed up for work in the morning we had an entire hillside covered in thick, tall brush in front of us. And when we left at the end of the day the same hillside was nothing but dirt and rocks. Not so much as a single foxtail or dandelion left standing. Then the next day we had to remove any rocks that we could lift. Then others would install irrigation systems, then iceplant would be planted to prevent erosion.

So yeah, we sometimes hit some rocks. Whether the brush was growing up out of rocks, or we had to cut stalks that were growing up against boulders, or there were rocks just below the dirt where we were cutting. And yet, despite occasionally hitting rocks our machetes were not rendered useless, and we were still able to get the work done.

But we weren't perfect. We weren't surgical in the use of our machetes as some claim to be. Like I said, we were more concerned with getting the work done, on time, getting paid, and keeping our jobs. And we were willing to sacrifice the edges of our cheap machetes to do it. After all, they were easy enough to resharpen at lunch.

Some of the posts in this thread remind me of people who say that they've never dropped a knife, or never cut themselves with a knife. Yeah, right, whatever you say.

I've never met anyone who was perfect. I've only read about them on the internet .

Mmm, right. Heaven forbid anyone should use a machete differently than you do. The sky might fall! And for the record, nobody mentioned what anyone else described as being impossible, nor false. For that sort of job, (complete clear-cutting) I would be looking to use a brush hog and a tractor, or better yet a bulldozer. But then I don't dig ditches with a spoon or drive cross country on a bicycle either... Probably just me.

 

[StrayRound]

Anyone sharpen machetes out of harder 1095 such as the Ontarios and the larger "chopping" style knives differently than the softer steels?

 

[Mecha]

I would like to better understand this. My application is clearing trails of a mix of caneberries, nettles, vine maple, manzanita, salal, ferns, English ivy, devils club, hogweed, snowbrush, rhododendron, scotch broom, and limbs or shoots of pine, alder, cottonwood, fir, etc.

I use a machete on a lot of similar stuff. Vine maple is a tough target!

For sharpening my current go-to is an 800 grit belt on a grinder. It seems to be a nice combination of smooth and toothy.

Once you know how machetes cut most effectively on what kinds of growth you can rapidly tell what approaches will be best for the given context.

One of my favorite things about machete work and cutting is that you can always get better and better at it, with every cut purposeful and efficient. Depending on the target different parts of the blade are used, with different force and speed, different angles of attack, and maybe a special flick of the wrist. I just let it flow.

Every shrub and sapling an enemy ninja, every thicket an enemy samurai stronghold.

 

[killgar]

Mmm, right. Heaven forbid anyone should use a machete differently than you do. The sky might fall! And for the record, nobody mentioned what anyone else described as being impossible, nor false. For that sort of job, (complete clear-cutting) I would be looking to use a brush hog and a tractor, or better yet a bulldozer. But then I don't dig ditches with a spoon or drive cross country on a bicycle either... Probably just me.

Right, because I'm the one telling others the PROPER way to use a machete, and suggesting that if they hit a rock that they're doing it wrong.

Oh wait, that's not me. I'm the one saying that sometimes, if you cut at ground level, you might hit a rock, and that it's not the end of the world, nor is it necessarily the result of poor technique.

Brush hog? Tractor? Bulldozer? Unfortunately for me, at the age of seventeen I couldn't afford any of those. Much less a truck and trailer to transport them 20-30 miles across the county to a job site. And neither did any of my co-workers or employer have such heavy equipment. But I guess we didn't need such heavy equipment to get the job done, because we got the job done with simple hand tools.

And it was probably for the best. Because I don't know how effective a tractor or bulldozer would have been going up and down steep hillsides. But then I don't claim to be an expert in the use of tractors and bulldozers. Just like I don't claim to be an expert in the use of a machete.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

I use a machete on a lot of similar stuff. Vine maple is a tough target!

I hope the Condor Mini Duku will work better on those compared the Latin pattern I started with. Its 10" blade is short for brambles however so I'll have to choose wisely, or carry both. Which style(s) of machete do you use?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Anyone sharpen machetes out of harder 1095 such as the Ontarios and the larger "chopping" style knives differently than the softer steels?

I don't really consider the Ontarios as "chopping knives" exactly, but heavy choppers like kukris and thicker parang models tend to be used on woodier targets because their shorter length/heavier weight means they simply don't have the tip velocity needed for effectively dealing with lush vegetation, so I polish 'em up more for use on rigid woody targets.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Right, because I'm the one telling others the PROPER way to use a machete, and suggesting that if they hit a rock that they're doing it wrong.

No one has said that, though.

 

[Mecha]

I hope the Condor Mini Duku will work better on those compared the Latin pattern I started with. Its 10" blade is short for brambles however so I'll have to choose wisely, or carry both. Which style(s) of machete do you use?

Usually the oldest basic-style machete I can find at a second-hand store, like an Ontario or Tramontina type, in the common style you see around. They usually seem to have a distal thickness taper which is key. For steel machetes I like the old ones, but FortyTwoBlades seems to have brand-new ones that look like the old ones. I avoid the new clunky plastic handle machetes you see in the stores. Gross.

If not one of those, I use one of my titanium ones.

A favorite of mine was this one:

This was a recent one that's shaped more like the steel ones I use:

And some older ones. I really liked this pair:

This was a style I called the "Italian Machete," a racey version of a classic-style machete.

And this is the typical "Mechachete" type I used to make a lot:

They all have their ups and downs, but I think the above may get usurped by a new one I'm working on, that's inspired by the Burmese dha. Hot off the press, sneak peek:

It's almost finished.

 

[Mecha]

FortyTwoBlades do you carry machetes that are kind of stiff and have a distal thickness taper, like the old ones I described above? Is there a certain brand that's known for it? Ones with that kind of blade are my favorite steel machetes.

 

[killgar]

I've only accidentally hit rocks with my machetes...twice? in the roughly two decades I've been using them because I check the path of my swing before flailing away.

It's just a matter of checking where you're cutting and employing the right techniques to make sure the blade only goes where you want it to.

We have SO much rock here. But I swing my machetes where the rocks aren't. Here's the very simple secret recipe to avoiding rocks.

If you are chopping the ground & rocks, your doing it wrong.

Quotes abbreviated to be on-point, and to prevent this post from being half a page long.

No one has said that, though.

I guess we read the statements above, and the rest of those posts differently. Because it looks to me like what's being said in those posts is- "If you hit rocks when using a machete you're doing it wrong. Let me tell you the proper way".

We'll have to agree to disagree regarding our interpretations of those statements. In any event, I take no offense, nor do I intend any .

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Quotes abbreviated to be on-point, and to prevent this post from being half a page long.



I guess we read the statements above, and the rest of those posts differently. Because it looks to me like what's being said in those posts is- "If you hit rocks when using a machete you're doing it wrong. Let me tell you the proper way".

We'll have to agree to disagree regarding our interpretations of those statements. In any event, I take no offense, nor do I intend any .

Well I guess TwinStick arguably did say that it was outright wrong, so my mistake there. That being said, can you describe to me any circumstance in which you have purposefully swung a machete at a rock you knew was there, and that you knew you would hit if you swung at it that way? Because the only time I ever had was when I made a video deliberately inducing damage to a machete edge for the sake of ironing the damage out on camera. I cannot think of any other circumstance personally where I would need to hit a rock. Any time I've had to make cuts against obstructions I've found alternative ways of swinging to avoid hitting said rock. There are lots of ways of using a machete to cut targets that are amongst rocks that are not convenient to move that don't involve banging your edge into stones. Consider it an invitation to get creative with your approaches.

It's very fair that you may have lacked the experience at the time to find these things self-evident, and you had work to get done, and that's fine. But while one should be prepared to deal with damage from rocks, hidden old fence posts/wire, and so on, one should also not deliberately employ techniques that are prone to inducing that damage if other effective methods also present themselves. I'm not an armchair warrior here or anything--I use machetes extensively for real work in real conditions, but I am also prudent about my swings.

A customer of mine once made the mistake of not checking his swing path with a Tramontina bolo I'd sharpened up for him and caught it on a hanging vine he hadn't noticed. It made the blade glance in a way he didn't anticipate and he nearly chopped through his one shin bone. If his buddies hasn't been right there with him he could have died, and he almost had to have the leg amputated. Because of one careless swing. Always check where you're swinging.

FortyTwoBlades do you carry machetes that are kind of stiff and have a distal thickness taper, like the old ones I described above? Is there a certain brand that's known for it? Ones with that kind of blade are my favorite steel machetes.

Most of Imacasa's stuff has distal tapers, and my Kingfisher machetes (made by them, of course) are tapered as well. Chillington Crocodile/Martindale of England also does distal taper. But you're likely thinking of antique Collins machetes as far as old ones go.

 

[oldmanwilly]

Not fortunate--careful! Maine is famous for its granite and I live on an island that's basically an ancient volcanic remnant that got scraped over by a glacier, so there's rock EVERYWHERE here. It's just a matter of checking where you're cutting and employing the right techniques to make sure the blade only goes where you want it to. I also use other tools where more appropriate. When chopping near the ground, for instance, tilt the blade a little upward so the spine glides along the ground like the back of a scythe blade. This keeps the edge close to the ground, but out of the dirt, and small obstructions will pass under the blade instead of colliding with the edge.

Yup, mea culpa. I'm 100% aware that my technique is a large part of the issue. Another issue is that I have to cut a lot of cedar tree sapplings (juniperus ashei) which must be cut off at the ground level. If any green leaves or branches are left behind they will grow back and be 2x harder to kill. I've resigned myself to using a pair of loppers when I can help it but sometimes all I have is a machete or a kukri and have to bite the pebbles to get the job done.

 

[Mecha]

Most of Imacasa's stuff has distal tapers, and my Kingfisher machetes (made by them, of course) are tapered as well. Chillington Crocodile/Martindale of England also does distal taper. But you're likely thinking of antique Collins machetes as far as old ones go.

Thanks for the info. At the moment I have no machete(!!!) and will need to get several to feel normal again.