Machete Steel

Just from a historical perspective, Collins Company that was the biggest machete maker in N. America, settled on 1080 with an Rc. of 50-52.
 
Grain growth, decarburization, some hardening maybe. The usual treatment is to grind off the heat affected zone.
 
Hi Dan,

When I asked how you planned to have the blades heat treated, I wasn't referring to how the laser would effect the steel, I was wondering if you were going to HT yourself, or send it out to BOS or Peters.

Are you familiar with the heat treating process?

As for sizes other than what Admiral has listed on their website, call or email them to find out what sizes they have on hand currently. I think you're going to be hard pressed to find a plate of 1075/1080 in 6" x 24" dimensions. If you're looking for stock that would allow for a wider blade, see if they have any 1/8" x 3" bar stock and just cut out your your blanks end to end.

Taylor
 
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I know it's OT, but I have a steel question, and I don't want to open a new thread. So, here's the deal... I purchased some 1095 from Aldo. Now, I don't spend much time making knives, just because my workbench is in the garage, and there's no heat. I live in New England, and it's a tiny little cold here right now. Anyway, back to my question. The 1095 from Aldo is on my bench, for weeks at the time, and there's not even a little rust on them. Nothing, nada, zilch. Shouldn't 1095 show oxydation at some point? Not that I wish for rust, but could it be that Aldo sent me a stainless? He's a busy man, and mistakes happen.
BTW, Salem, as soon as I get them where I want them, they'll be on their way.
 
frenchman said:
I know it's OT, but I have a steel question, and I don't want to open a new thread. So, here's the deal... I purchased some 1095 from Aldo. Now, I don't spend much time making knives, just because my workbench is in the garage, and there's no heat. I live in New England, and it's a tiny little cold here right now. Anyway, back to my question. The 1095 from Aldo is on my bench, for weeks at the time, and there's not even a little rust on them. Nothing, nada, zilch. Shouldn't 1095 show oxydation at some point? Not that I wish for rust, but could it be that Aldo sent me a stainless? He's a busy man, and mistakes happen.
BTW, Salem, as soon as I get them where I want them, they'll be on their way.
Click to expand...

If it's cold, there may not be much moisture in the air to induce rusting.

I have a stack of 1095 that has been sitting around for months that is completely rust free. People tend to exaggerate the rusting of 1095. If you get it wet, it will rust. It should be rust free in a dry, low humidity environment.
 
It doesn't have the desired properties when you receive it, unless you order it pre-hardened. It arrives in a soft state that allows you to work the steel easily, then heat treat it to your specifications. You'll need to send it out to a heat treater or harden it yourself.

My personal steel choices change drastically if I'm sending out for heat treating. It depends on cost and whether I'm making one knife (machete) for myself or a batch for companions who will help split the cost of heat treatment.
 
MaestroManDan said:
Why would I heat-treat steel that already has the desired properties?
Click to expand...

Hi Dan,

We've got to back up a few steps before you go any further.

Check these links out.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673173

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=639019

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=799352

They are all MUST READS.

The volume of material may seem daunting at first, but they're an absolutely required read compiled by BFC's own Stacy Apelt and Kevin Cashen. If you're truly serious about this venture, then you'll need to read up on the subject, as there's a lot more to making a knife than choosing the steel you want to work with.

Read the links and then read them again. Then feel free to ask any questions you'll probably have.

Taylor
 
MaestroManDan said:
So I have a range of 1400-2400,then?
Click to expand...

No, more like 1450-1550F, just above where the steel loses its ability to attract a magnet. Above that temp all sorts of interesting things happen that are no good for a knife blade.
 
There are instructions for home-built propane forges in the links provided above.
 
So dan... you've gone from just designing your own blade, to buying the steel, to cutting it out youself... and now, with no experience, you plan to build a forge, and heat treat and temper this steel? correct?

Thats quite an undertaking from someone new to knifemaking.... all over one machete.

Here's what can happen when steel is improperly treated:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o-DCk2qhDM

He's not even hitting very hard. There is a big difference between working conditions and related stress of chopping/sword working blades, and say a utility or skinning knife. Mainly if the small knife fails, its just a small disapointment, if a sword, machete or large camp knife fails, it might be a big disapointment.

Your working the big scout camp in NM; thats certainly cool. At least we all hope to hear how this comes out because all too often, when people say they are going to test/work a blade but in reality, it turns out to be a cake walk. You are going to be working one out quite a lot. I'd add that how you carry/equip the machete is just as important. Here is one man's ideas on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQhwbR2a2X4

I'd ditch the corrundum for one of these with the handle cut down:

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-Diamond-Oval-Sharpening-Steel-Medium-Grit-NEW-/360331419787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e56d208b

If you've never hardened or tempered blade steel; this is no time to learn. It takes some practice. I'd hate to see you depend on that out in the bush. An injury far from any medical treatment facility is anything but good.

m
 
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MaestroManDan said:
Why would I heat-treat steel that already has the desired properties?
Click to expand...

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days and you will understand it much better.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4





It seems that I missed you with this.


Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers v12

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, or you may have a helpful neighbour; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.
Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
It’s being reprinted now, you can get it for $20 ish


The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercial quench oils are available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is now a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days and you will understand it much better.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
They are slow to get new titles and wait times are measured in months,
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find a list of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo is highly rated.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Ph# 862-203-8160

Heat Treating
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
http://www.atlasknife.com


Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html


Safety Equipment
I have a sign at my shop door, “Eyes, Ears, Fingers, Lungs” as a reminder to take off jewelry and put on my safety gear.

Respirators

bladsmth said:
Those paper paint masks are about as effective as using a sock for a condom.
Click to expand...

The minimum I would consider are the 3M and North silicone half masks;
even better are the powered positive pressure fresh air systems.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309


V12 Edited dead links
 
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