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Machetes ??? Fiddleback Tops Esee Ontario How do they compare??
- Thread starter Smiddy
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Hey Boss Man.
Thanks for the question
I have three Tactical Patterns, in three different thickness with three steel choices.
Right now I am offering 1075, 1095 and CPM 3v.
This hand rub finish takes about 6 hours and as a result my coated blades will be less expensive.
I want to DLC an 18" Machete. Mirror polish the bevels and hand rub the flats with Carbon Fiber handles.
Have a great evening.
Much Respect.
I have been dreaming of a CPM-3V machete with a DLC coating. 
Interestingly, only a select few DLC coatings are meant to be a corrosion barrier. I read it in the BodyCote catalog.
I wonder how DLC would cope with a bending, flexing blade. Does DLC have any stretch to it?
And an 18" machete is the only way to go.
Interestingly, only a select few DLC coatings are meant to be a corrosion barrier. I read it in the BodyCote catalog.
I wonder how DLC would cope with a bending, flexing blade. Does DLC have any stretch to it?
And an 18" machete is the only way to go.
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I have been dreaming of a CPM-3V machete with a DLC coating.
Interestingly, only a select few DLC coatings are meant to be a corrosion barrier. I read it in the BodyCote catalog.
I wonder how DLC would cope with a bending, flexing blade. Does DLC have any stretch to it?
Thanks for the post.. Your 100% right about the old Bodycote PVD DLC.
I had blades rust that were done by Bodycote years ago.
The industry has some new PVD coatings now that claim to be corrosion resistant and many are in use in refineries and the oil and gas industry.
My vendor in California has a black PVD coating that they call "Black Diamond" and it has some decent corrosion resistance.
Flexing should not be an issue because it is a physical vapor deposition coating.
The big problem is going to be cost $$ due to all the real estate involved and how much space it will take up in their chamber.
We have 4" fixed blades coated regularly but I am afraid the cost of the Machete is going to be crazy.
Have a great evening.. Much Respect.
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Aki Blades, whom I believe has a membership here, makes custom machetes in S7 and ATS-34 in Hawaii. The handles are either a thick cord wrap or native hardwood. His work appeared in TK. There was also a fellow whose name I can't recall whom I believe was also featured in TK (it may have been BLADE but I think it was TK since the photos in the article were black and white) that makes a custom machete that had an elk or stag antler handle. Wish I still had the issue, but it was a year, maybe two, ago. The maker was an older fellah too, I seem to recall?
Note that I didn't mention anything about price.
Your work is actually competitively priced for your bracket of the market, and as I mentioned it does look quite lovely. Instead, I referenced the positioning of the model. It's a premium top-class fully custom machete, but it's a basic Latin pattern which pits it in direct competition with a slew of inexpensive--yet high performance--machetes being made in countries where the average person has been using a machete literally since they were a toddler, so they know the tool intimately. However homely those models may be, they're stiff competition when prestige is taken out of the equation, especially since machetes are, at heart, a "dirty work" tool where they get uglied up quick. The ESEE Lite Machete, while full production, is already a 18" Latin pattern with a premium handle, which creates further crowding of the market with alternatives. Then the TOPS .230 has those features (other than the docked nose from the Ontario blank) but with a USA made blade. Thus, I personally would have pursued not merely the fit/finish/materials aspect, but also differentiated the tool by using a pattern other than the Latin pattern, which is by far the most common on the market. Even a bolo (the next most common on the North American continent) would be a bit more "fresh" in terms of its appeal in my eyes. The Fiddleback and Blind Horse machetes (and Bark River gets an honorable mention) are examples of this differentiation--if you want that pattern you have to get it from them, as it's a unique design, not just a unique build execution. Given the high degree of creativity and distinctive appearance of your usual work, I was actually surprised that you went with a Latin rather than a unique imagining of the tool since I know you could put out some pretty crazy stuff--and are likely already planning to.
There are an increasing number of premium machetes on the market, but that market will take time to grow further as more players enter the game and shift overall perception of the machete beyond it's overwhelmingly dominent image as a purely inexpensive tool. High end models are still quite a novelty right now rather than an accepted standard industry class, so to speak. That will change eventually but we're still in the early stages of the wave hitting. And honestly, the machete as a tool hits its max price : performance ratio very early on the price range. Anything over the $100 mark is well past the point of diminishing returns under most circumstances, and I'd even set that ceiling lower most of the time.
You know your own customers far better than I as, like you mentioned, we play in different sandboxes. However, machetes are something I'm quite familiar with (
) so I hope you don't mind my constructive criticism.P.S.-- Also, I'm a bit confused by these challenges?
Those all require different levels of specificity, starting with general in the first instance and then making a beeline for outrageously specific. The pool you're competing for is very small (especially when omitting high end production and semi-custom blades, as the BRKT modified Ontarios nearly match the descriptions of #2 and #3)
But that's all a minor point as I'm more interested in discussing design elements anyhow.
As a final question, are your blades tapered? And I may have missed it before--what's the stock thickness and overall weight?
Last edited:
stabman
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Handle mods are easy. Mine is slimmer, flushed, with no hotspots. Took a half hour.
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Also, Mike, if you have that video showing 13 year olds grinding without glasses or PPE I'd be very interested not only in seeing it but also knowing the name of the manufacturer using their labor. Imacasa, for instance, is ISO 9000 certified and has their workers wear so much PPE that they lightheartedly joke about needing to get physical therapy to deal with the weight of it all.
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Yup! It's solid poly as far as I've been able to tell. You can cut/sand away at it pretty darn deep.
- Joined
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Aki Blades, whom I believe has a membership here, makes custom machetes in S7 and ATS-34 in Hawaii. The handles are either a thick cord wrap or native hardwood. His work appeared in TK. There was also a fellow whose name I can't recall whom I believe was also featured in TK (it may have been BLADE but I think it was TK since the photos in the article were black and white) that makes a custom machete that had an elk or stag antler handle. Wish I still had the issue, but it was a year, maybe two, ago. The maker was an older fellah too, I seem to recall?
Note that I didn't mention anything about price.
However homely those models may be, they're stiff competition when prestige is taken out of the equation, especially since machetes are, at heart, a "dirty work" tool where they get uglied up quick. The ESEE Lite Machete, while full production, is already a 18" Latin pattern with a premium handle, which creates further crowding of the market with alternatives. Then the TOPS .230 has those features (other than the docked nose from the Ontario blank) but with a USA made blade. Thus, I personally would have pursued not merely the fit/finish/materials aspect, but also differentiated the tool by using a pattern other than the Latin pattern, which is by far the most common on the market. Even a bolo (the next most common on the North American continent) would be a bit more "fresh" in terms of its appeal in my eyes. The Fiddleback and Blind Horse machetes (and Bark River gets an honorable mention) are examples of this differentiation--if you want that pattern you have to get it from them, as it's a unique design, not just a unique build execution. Given the high degree of creativity and distinctive appearance of your usual work, I was actually surprised that you went with a Latin rather than a unique imagining of the tool since I know you could put out some pretty crazy stuff--and are likely already planning to.
There are an increasing number of premium machetes on the market, but that market will take time to grow further as more players enter the game and shift overall perception of the machete beyond it's overwhelmingly dominent image as a purely inexpensive tool. High end models are still quite a novelty right now rather than an accepted standard industry class, so to speak. That will change eventually but we're still in the early stages of the wave hitting. And honestly, the machete as a tool hits its max price : performance ratio very early on the price range. Anything over the $100 mark is well past the point of diminishing returns under most circumstances, and I'd even set that ceiling lower most of the time.
You know your own customers far better than I as, like you mentioned, we play in different sandboxes. However, machetes are something I'm quite familiar with (
P.S.-- Also, I'm a bit confused by these challenges?
Those all require different levels of specificity, starting with general in the first instance and then making a beeline for outrageously specific. The pool you're competing for is very small (especially when omitting high end production and semi-custom blades, as the BRKT modified Ontarios nearly match the descriptions of #2 and #3)
But that's all a minor point as I'm more interested in discussing design elements anyhow.
As a final question, are your blades tapered? And I may have missed it before--what's the stock thickness and overall weight?
Friend, you are talking to a guy that makes and sells Solid Titanium Tactical Blingshots for $799.00 each.
Do you understand that if people will buy a $799.00 Slingshot it is not unreasonable to expect them to buy a $250.00 Machete.
Do you understand what I am saying.. I sell $799.00 Titanium Tactical Slingshots and we are sold out.
I dream in color Bro.. Why rain on my parade?
I do not know why you are confused.
I asked you to name one other custom machete in the World with a handrubbed finish and G10 handle that retailed for $249.00
It is a very simple question.. What Accomplished Maker is Currently Producing a Full Blown Custom Machete for $249.00 or less.
I am the only one in the World. I own the market.. There is currently zero competition for a Custom at my Price Point.
The Latin Style is my personal favorite and it is easy to sheath.
My client also specified Latin Style. I have family in Mexico and I live in Texas.
Latin Style just kind of makes sense.
Some people buy Remington 870s and some people buy Kreighoff
Some people buy disposable razor blade knives and some people buy Michael Walker Custom Folders.
You are failing to realize one very important thing, I already have clients in place for every Tactical Machete I ever build.
Have you ever owned a nice pair of boots or custom shoes..
I own several pair of $1,000.00 Custom Boots and using your analogy I just go to Payless and get some $10.00 rubber boots.
This is America Man! Home of Capitalism where you work hard and reward yourself..
You say "as a tool it hits a price ceiling" but you fail to realize that there is No Price Ceiling.
Have you ever seen custom Kitchen Knives by Bob Kramer? They cost $10,000.00.
You have a flat earth mentality regarding the real world of custom knives.
Dude what kind of watch do your wear? What kind of guns do you buy?
What about your optics? Is that how you go through life?
My wife bought me a 1964 Impalla in 100% mint condition for Fathers Day.
Some things have a value that exceeds their use as a tool.
Send me your shipping information and I will send you a Tactical Machete to test.
Have a great evening..
Last edited:
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I think he was talking about diminishing returns when he said price ceiling. Every single type of knife has a price point where you start to get diminishing returns a good example would be the CRK Sebenza compared to say the Spyderco PM2. We all know the Sebenza isn't going to do anything the Spyderco wont but there is a reason it costs more. I agree life is short and we all need our toys.
Btw God bless Texas I miss home.
Btw God bless Texas I miss home.
stabman
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I'd offer to test one, but no one cares much about my opinion on these matters.
Good offer though; certainly providing backing to your claims.
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Well I know 42blades knows a whole lot about machetes and I would love to see him test one and get his feed back on them.
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I agree with that analogy regarding diminishing returns.
How do I tell my wife that when she wants a new refrigerator or a TV.
Why buy that Ranger Bass boat instead of paddling out on an innertube?
Does a Weatherby kill a whitetail deader than a Harrington Richardson?
Like you said Carnal, life is short..
Have a great evening.
Much Respect.
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I'd offer to test one, but no one cares much about my opinion on these matters.
Good offer though; certainly providing backing to your claims.
I will see if I can make that happen
Have a great evening my old friend
Much Respect from Texas.
stabman
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Absolutely, I know the dude is a Machete Guru.
That is why I value his input and want to get some of this Snody Tactical Goodness in his hands.
Huge Respect.
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Friend, you are talking to a guy that makes and sells Solid Titanium Tactical Blingshots for $799.00 each.
Do you understand that if people will buy a $799.00 Slingshot it is not unreasonable to expect them to buy a $250.00 Machete.
Do you understand what I am saying.. I sell $799.00 Titanium Tactical Slingshots and we are sold out.
I dream in color Bro.. Why rain on my parade?
Oh I understand. Your customers are able to afford the toys and enjoy them, so they drop the money on them and everyone's happy all around. That's not my criticism so much, and I think that the fact that titanium slingshots even exist at all is pretty cool.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade at all, and if anything would like to hope that I'm encouraging your efforts. As mentioned prior I think your pricing is very fair given the work and overhead involved and the scale of production, etc. etc.--I just feel like the end result doesn't speak to me as a tactical design other than in name, and the pattern is a very "vanilla" one and I just know that there's a uniquely $nody machete lurking in your head somewhere dying to get out. The market is flooded with 18" Latin machetes, including some that are in the premium tier even if they're production models. The world doesn't have a machete with your trademark flare to it, and I know that it could be done in such a way as to be a highly effective tool first and foremost but incorporating a bit more of your artistic aesthetic. The confusion was over the fact that you made three significantly different challenges in almost immediate succession so the rules of the game obviously would change depending on which of the three were being used as the one truly proffered.
Yes, you own the market for people looking specifically for a machete that costs $250 or more and has both a hand-rubbed finish and a G-10 handle. However that's really the intersection of multiple market samples:
1) People both willing and able to spend $250 or more on a machete or machete-like tool.
2) People specifically looking for or indifferent to G-10 as a handle material.
3) People specifically looking for or indifferent to a hand-rubbed finish.
Posting this for the moment since I'm in and out of the barn doing chores right now. Will pick up on the rest in a moment.
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Oh I understand. Your customers are able to afford the toys and enjoy them, so they drop the money on them and everyone's happy all around. That's not my criticism so much, and I think that the fact that titanium slingshots even exist at all is pretty cool.
The confusion was over the fact that you made three significantly different challenges in almost immediate succession so the rules of the game obviously would change depending on which of the three were being used as the one truly proffered.
Yes, you own the market for people looking specifically for a machete that costs $250 or more and has both a hand-rubbed finish and a G-10 handle. However that's really the intersection of multiple market samples:
1) People both willing and able to spend $250 or more on a machete or machete-like tool.
2) People specifically looking for or indifferent to G-10 as a handle material.
3) People specifically looking for or indifferent to a hand-rubbed finish.
Posting this for the moment since I'm in and out of the barn doing chores right now. Will pick up on the rest in a moment.
Look Dude.
I am subscribed to your youtube and now I get it.
You are a young guy wanting to make a name in the Machete World
You have a design that you want to produce in El Salvador.
You have a Machete design called the Baryonyx and I have one called the Tejano.
My design is traditional and your design is non-traditional.
We will both do fine.. I promise you..
Have a great evening..
Much Respect.
