Mad Dash for AOs

H0B0J0 said:
My impression was that only A/O knives being imported were at risk?
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Yes, as I read it, the current ruling only effects knives being imported into the US. It does not have any juristiction over the interstate transport or domestic manufacture of such knives.

The thing to fear is not that this ruling have much impact on the predominantly domestic AO market, but that other rulemakers may attempt to adopt the same restrictive definitions in other regulations or laws which do effect domestic sale or interstate transport. :(

I myself own a few AO knives, and there are one or two others I would like to aquire for my collection. Honestly, though, for me the AO is just a gimmick that is fun to play with, not something I feel a strong need for. For practial one-hand opening I much prefer thumb-holes or thumb-studs. If AO knives were totally outlawed tomorrow, it would not have any real effect on me (other than angering me over yet another stupid and pointless anti-something law). :mad:
 
mdauben said:
Honestly, though, for me the AO is just a gimmick that is fun to play with, not something I feel a strong need for. For practial one-hand opening I much prefer thumb-holes or thumb-studs. If AO knives were totally outlawed tomorrow, it would not have any real effect on me (other than angering me over yet another stupid and pointless anti-something law). :mad:
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You and a lot of other people don't like AO's, but what's next if we don't
take a stand on AO's? If we lay down without a fight on this issue, it may
effect other deployments....Thumbstuds, holes, waves, axis, hawk locks...
You get the picture. Right now isn't the time to lay down whether or not
you like/hate/don't care/don't see a need for, so on and so forth.

It's a time for us as a knife community to stand tall and together and fight
for what we think our rights as knife and tool owners are to make the best
stand we can against this.

Just my .02 worth.
 
svrider3 said:
You and a lot of other people don't like AO's, but what's next if we don't take a stand on AO's?
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Not saying I don't like AOs, just that I don't feel any real need for them.

On the other hand, trying to restrict them is just stupid, just like the switchblade laws are stupid and the laws about sawed off shotguns are stupid. None of these things are inherently more dangerous to the public than their non-AO, non-auto, non-sawed off versions and restrictging or outlawing them acomplishes nothing to make the public safer. They are just easy targets for liberal fear mongers to demonize and then legislate against to show that they are "doing something" to fight crime. :jerkit:

If we lay down without a fight on this issue, it may effect other deployments....
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I totally agree. Just like gun owners, its getting to the point where knife owners need to start fighting before each new little restriction starts us down that "slippery slope" toward the sort of near-total banning that exists in places like the UK. :mad:
 
mdauben said:
Not saying I don't like AOs, just that I don't feel any real need for them.
On the other hand, trying to restrict them is just stupid, just like the switchblade laws are stupid and the laws about sawed off shotguns are stupid. None of these things are inherently more dangerous to the public than their non-AO, non-auto, non-sawed off versions and restrictging or outlawing them acomplishes nothing to make the public safer. They are just easy targets for liberal fear mongers to demonize and then legislate against to show that they are "doing something" to fight crime. :jerkit:


I totally agree. Just like gun owners, its getting to the point where knife owners need to start fighting before each new little restriction starts us down that "slippery slope" toward the sort of near-total banning that exists in places like the UK. :mad:
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Sorry I read into that wrong. :o I do pretty much agree with you on everything else.
Well said. :thumbup:
 
Thomas W, I am a member and will write a few letters. My reaction was both my LEO experience seeing how these rulings quickly gain legs and are used as case law or definitions in other courts/agencies. This quote from Chuck Buck also helped me feel worried:

"The main concern for the knife industry in general is that this goes far beyond just the importation of assisted openers. The potential exists for language used by Customs being adopted for interstate commerce in the future.

The concept Customs is adding to the interprestation of switchblade law is "Human assisted inertia". This is the language they are using to make assisted openers switchblades. You "assist" the knife into an "inertia" opening state and that is just the same as if you pressed a button to open it.

When you really think about that language, it could be interpreted in the future to mean any folder you can "assist" open half way and flick open the rest of the way "inertia" would then be classified as a switchblade.

In other words...every folder ever made could be considered a switchblade"

All that said, I will do as you suggest and write the needed letters and keep my fingers crossed !!
 
tom19176 said:
In other words...every folder ever made could be considered a switchblade"

!
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"Could be" from "will be" , see I like your attitude adjustment already.

BTW tom, TX. case is on the Governor's desk just looking for a signature...who'd of thought. :thumbup:
 
tom19176 said:
Thomas W, I am a member and will write a few letters. My reaction was both my LEO experience seeing how these rulings quickly gain legs and are used as case law or definitions in other courts/agencies. This quote from Chuck Buck also helped me feel worried:

"The main concern for the knife industry in general is that this goes far beyond just the importation of assisted openers. The potential exists for language used by Customs being adopted for interstate commerce in the future.

The concept Customs is adding to the interprestation of switchblade law is "Human assisted inertia". This is the language they are using to make assisted openers switchblades. You "assist" the knife into an "inertia" opening state and that is just the same as if you pressed a button to open it.

When you really think about that language, it could be interpreted in the future to mean any folder you can "assist" open half way and flick open the rest of the way "inertia" would then be classified as a switchblade.

In other words...every folder ever made could be considered a switchblade"

All that said, I will do as you suggest and write the needed letters and keep my fingers crossed !!
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At which point my pocketknife might be illegal. Big deal.

Sometimes I drive 56 in a 55. Even out here in the sticks, cops have better things to do with their time than bust people for carrying pocketknives. Lol. Life goes on.
 
guy i know owns the benchmade stryker and loves it, hes had it for 4 years and never had a problem. i just orderd a bm afo II. bm seems to be a good company with a great warranty form what im told.
 
Peter if you were responding to my post, I AM listen to them! This email came in TODAY !! :
Knife Rights News Slice Vol. 2 Number 4

This newsletter is emailed to Knife Rights members and news media. If you prefer not receiving these emails from Knife Rights, please email: dritter@kniferights.org and ask to be removed.

A digital copy of this News Slice can be found online at: http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=81&Itemid=1

The U.S. Government Is Trying To Take Away Your Pocket Knives!

The U.S. Government is after your Pocket Knives! In a sneak attack, U.S. Customs has proposed revoking earlier rulings that assisted opening knives are not switchblades. The proposal would not only outlaw assisted opening knives, its overly broad new definition of a switchblade would also include all one-handed opening knives and most other pocket knives!

Knife Rights is geared up to help win this fight, but we cannot do it without your help, your emails, your letters. The fight can only be won if we raise enough hell that they are convinced they will not get away with this. YOU are the most effective arrow in our quiver, the most powerful cartridge in our gun.
Knife Rights Chairman Doug Ritter will be Tom Gresham's guest this Sunday on Tom's nationally syndicated Gun Talk radio show. The topic will be this Customs' proposal. Doug will explain the 63-page document, discuss the potential ramifications for law-abiding knife owners in the U.S., as well as how you can help Knife Rights defeat this over-reaching by Customs.
Doug will appear as the first guest, starting at 1:00 PM Central Time. Some stations, including Sirius/XM satellite, carry the show on a delayed basis. Check at www.GunTalk.com for times and stations.
Read on for the whole story and how you can make a difference and save your Knife Rights.

Knife Rights was formed three years ago because we knew it was only a matter of time before there would be a major attempt to take away our knives, as has occurred in England, Europe and elsewhere. Up until now, the battles have been fought at state and local legislative levels, such as the recent scare in Hawaii: < http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=29 >. It has been a battle of a million little cuts. Little did we guess that the first major battle at a national level wouldn't come head on, but with government bureaucrats trying to sneak it by everyone, avoiding a more conventional legislative battle, which they'd likely lose.

U.S. Customs & Border Protection (CBP) just a bit over two weeks ago on May 21st proposed revoking earlier rulings that assisted opening knives are not switchblades. The proposed new rule would not only outlaw assisted opening knives, its new broad definition of a switchblade would also include one-handed opening knives and could be easily interpreted to cover most other pocket knives, even simple old-fashioned slip-joints. At this point, one-hand opening and assisted opening knives are 80% of U.S. knife sales (per AKTI industry sources). For most knife companies, they represent all or the majority of their product lines. These are the knives Americans take with them to work and to play everyday.

Note, please, that CBP's interpretation of the Federal Switchblade Act forms the basis for national, state and even local law and judicial rulings in many cases. This ruling by CBP is NOT limited to just imports. This WILL affect virtually everyone who carries a pocket knife, no matter the type!

CBP came up with this absurd proposal and then tried slipping it into their regular notices, apparently hoping nobody would become aware of until too late. They provided for only the minimum 30-day comment period, and there's no email comments allowed. Obviously, they'd just as soon not hear from us. We're intending to disappoint them in that.

CBP's proposal which would have effects far beyond that suggested in the title of the proposal, "Proposed Revocation Of Ruling Letters And Revocation Of Treatment Relating To The Admissibilty [sic] Of Certain Knives With Spring-Assisted Opening Mechanisms," which would be bad enough even if it only did that. However, this proposal would make it illegal for the estimated 40 million law-abiding Americans who own and carry pocket knives to do so. It would also cost this country dearly in destroyed businesses, lost jobs and ruined families. Thousands of jobs and billions of dollars would be lost. CBP clearly appears to not have considered the consequences of this unnecessary, inappropriate and even illegitimate action. Since CBP is not required to consider the effects of their actions, only Congress or the courts can rein them in. If left to the courts, the industry and our rights will be devastated and America will lose much, regardless of who wins the legal fight.

The definition of what is a switchblade has been clear and settled for the most part since the Federal Switchblade Act was passed in 1958 and has been reaffirmed by many years of legal decisions. The Act is very clear that a switchblade must have an activating button on the handle. Without a button, it is not a switchblade and this has been upheld by numerous cases on many levels over the years. CBP's convoluted reasoning in their proposal to reach back beyond the law and to expand their regulatory purview by rationalizing "intent" as justification for this new interpretation is a stretch, at best, and illegitimate at worst. It simply doesn't meet the common sense test.

CBP's reaching beyond the clear language of the Act in making this proposal is particularly questionable and irreconcilable because it flies in the face of virtually unanimous recent state court rulings (including several cases in California, Texas, Illinois and Michigan) where the issue of assisted-opening knives has already been decided in favor of the existing clear interpretation, that they are not a switchblade. They cherry-picked a few bizarre and untypical rulings from New York state from some years ago to provide support for their proposal, ignoring the many more recent rulings.

For CBP to ignore this overwhelming existing body of law is inexcusably arrogant and borders on a reckless abuse of their power. For them to suddenly do an about face is akin to moving the goalposts after starting the game, and then completely changing the rules of the game besides, making every play ever devised illegal.

Beyond that, their significantly expanded interpretation of gravity and inertia knives, also included in the Act, would clearly make one-hand opening pocket knives illegal and according to industry sources, 80% of pocket knives sold today are one-hand or assisted openers. Beyond even that clearly excessively broad seizure of authority, we know from past unfortunate experience in many cases over the years that this sort of misinterpretation leads to potential abuse by law enforcement where even the most simple and innocuous Boy Scout folding pocket knife can be opened one-handed by use of dangerous and unsafe tricks, so that these too would be covered under this expanded federal definition. This ruling would therefore make almost all pocket knives subject to being considered switchblades.

The impact of this CBP ruling would go far beyond just imported knives because this "agency determination" will be used by domestic courts and law enforcement to determine what is a "switchblade" under both federal and state laws. Many states do not themselves define switchblades and simply rely on the federal definition and interpretation, which is only found in rulings by CBP. Since interstate commerce in switchblades is prohibited, except under very limited conditions, simply driving across a state line with a pocket knife in their possession would make someone a federal felon.

Knifemaking in the U.S. has enjoyed a renaissance in the past decade or two as the genius and innovation of American knifemakers, designers and manufacturers has created a booming and vital American industry with thousands of exciting new knife designs that improve the function, utility and safety of the lowly pocket knife, one of man's oldest and most useful tools. Millions of Americans have responded to this innovation, creating a vibrant industry. For the most part these are family owned businesses that are American success stories, the core of America's economic strength. This proposal by CBP would destroy all that for no good reason. They don't need a bailout; they just need to be left alone to prosper.

The knife industry tells us they employ nearly 24,000 Americans and have a nearly 6 billion dollar annual impact on our nation&#8217;s economy. If this proposed ruling is allowed to stand, thousands of jobs will be lost at the direct cost of billions of dollars. That doesn't even begin to cover the enormous cost to the country of those that would become unemployed, the ruined businesses, foreclosed homes, years of litigation by both industry against CBP and who knows how many criminal trials and appeals as law-abiding Americans fight this abusive attempt to take away their knives, as well as many other devastating unforeseen effects of this ill-considered proposal. Thousands of American citizens&#8217; lives would be ruined. Millions of Americans would be impacted. The cost would be tragically huge, more so because it is neither necessary, nor desired by the vast majority of Americans.

We are in for the fight of our lives to save our Pocket Knives and our essential Knife Rights. We can only win if you do your part. You have to write!

Our first step is to convince CBP that we deserve more time to respond. Knife Rights has sent a letter to CBP requesting an extension to the ridiculously short 30-day comment period:

http://www.kniferights.org/CBP-extention_request_FINAL.pdf

We need your help to make an impression on CBP. They figured that they could slip this by everyone with little notice. We need to let CBP know that they are not going to get away with it; that we noticed and we are not happy and that we will not stand by while they take away our pocket knives.

We need you to write CBP NOW! Their 30 day deadline is fast approaching and these letters must go via postal mail (or Fedex/UPS). Click below for a Model Letter you can send to CBP. You MUST write TODAY!

http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=79&Itemid=29
or
http://tinyurl.com/q7w8tm

However, the reality is that CBP isn't required to listen to our demands, but they do have to answer to Congress. After you send a letter to CBP, giving them notice they are not going to sneak this by us, the next step is to inundate Congress with emails and letters.

If you want to be free to carry your pocket knives in the future, you need to write your Senators and Representative TODAY! Click below for a Model Letter you can send to Members of Congress. Only your efforts will stop this and save our Knife Rights!

http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=78&Itemid=29
or
http://tinyurl.com/qqvmns

We have prepared a Communicating with Congress page that includes tips to maximize the effect of your letters. This page was developed after consultation with experts who understand exactly how to get your message across to Members of Congress. We have also included easy links to find your Representatives, if you don't know who they are or the best way to reach them. How much of an impact your communication has can be significantly impacted by how and what you write. Our aim is to help maximize your impact so your Members of Congress actually listen and do something. PLEASE, click the link below and take a few minutes to review our Communicating with Congress page BEFORE you act.

http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=77&Itemid=29
or
http://tinyurl.com/opbyt2

Help us stop this ill-conceived effort by CBP before it puts thousands of more Americans out of work and destroys one of America&#8217;s oldest industries, causing great harm to our nation and many American families. Help us stop these faceless, heartless bureaucrats from destroying our essential American freedoms. This nation has many more important issues that need our attention and energy in this time of crisis.

NOW IS THE TIME WE MUST DO BATTLE! WE HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.

GET ON YOUR COMPUTERS AND SEND THESE LETTERS and EMAILS.

Write Customs & Border Patrol NOW!

http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=79&Itemid=29
or
http://tinyurl.com/q7w8tm

Write your Senators and Representative TODAY!

http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=78&Itemid=29
or
http://tinyurl.com/qqvmns

Join Knife Rights and help support the fight to keep your Knife Rights!

http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_acctexp&task=register
or
http://tinyurl.com/qnu988

DO IT NOW! DO IT TODAY! DON'T WAIT!

Thank you very much for your support!


Doug Ritter
dritter@KnifeRights.org

Have you signed up? Go to: www.KnifeRights.org
Protecting your right to own and carry knives and tools
 
But....anywho there are threads to discuss the impending doom of a/os I was just looking for some pointers about which ones are good.
 
Always starts with the Imports first, once that's done they (liberals) go after the domestic companies. They did it with firearms and they WILL do it to knives. Just "another Brick in the Wall"
 
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