mad dog atak2 or busse fusion steel heart?

[Cliff Stamp]

Kevin McClung's ATAK2 is very much a fighter, with its very ergonoimc grip and balance ...

Not the way it was origionally promoted, it was the SEAL knife, a tactical/utility based design, for cutting, chopping, prying etc., see the tests done by Yam and promoted by McClung.

It only became a pure "fighting" knife when it was compared to a bunch of others at utility tasks and consistently fell short. Then everyone sort of had a memory lapse and forgot about the massive promotion of cutting, chopping ability and insane durability.

And yes, insane, as in shot by high powered rifles, used as a diving board to launch men across a room, etc., hacking, chin ups, cutting your way out of a car wreck etc. .

Get the Fusion Steel Heart, a Camp Tramp or a Becker CU/7 if you want a more economic knife with a more neutral balance.

-Cliff

 

[OwcA]

Mad Dog never changed intended role for ATAK. He still considers it a combat/utility knife.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Mad Dog never changed intended role for ATAK. He still considers it a combat/utility knife.

When the ATAK was compared to a Steel Heart and fell short, McClung stated on Knifeforums that you would need to be an idiot to think these were for the same tasks. The Steel Heart is a combat / utility / emergency /survival use knife.

-Cliff

 

[OwcA]

On what do you base your presumption that he was limiting the scope of ATAK and not SH?
SH will fare much worse as a fighter than ATAK in any role. Granted, SH may come on top in most tasks but do-it-all knives are a compromise by definition.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The fact that there was a rapid reversal of the promotion once the knife actually was compared to something besides blades like the SEAL SOG. All of the prying, hacking, pounding, suddenly because abusive and the fact that the thread, as many at that time were all about utility.

The pure fighting aspect only came much later when as noted they started failing to compare well. In the beginning it was heavy chopping and such, with claims made like the ATAK could for example outchop a Battle Mistress, khukuri's etc. .

If your knife could do all another could do and more besides it would make sense to have them compared, not shy away from it.

The other point which is always made concerning the fighting apect is also nonsense. There are lots of fighting knives which are not neutral. Look at khukuris, someone with that type of martial backgruond would pick a Steel Heart over a ATAK as their fighting knife.

Is it better for some, sure, but as a blanket statement its purely false.

-Cliff

 

[OwcA]

The fact that there was a rapid reversal of the promotion once the knife actually was compared to something besides blades like the SEAL SOG. All of the prying, hacking, pounding, suddenly because abusive and the fact that the thread, as many at that time were all about utility.

The pure fighting aspect only came much later when as noted they started failing to compare well. In the beginning it was heavy chopping and such, with claims made like the ATAK could for example outchop a Battle Mistress, khukuri's etc. .

The only relevant fact here would be a quote from Mad Dog in which he classifies ATAK as a fighter. Everything else are just your interpretations.

The other point which is always made concerning the fighting apect is also nonsense. There are lots of fighting knives which are not neutral.

And who exactly, besides you, was making this point in this debate?
SH is ill suited for a fighter because it's reach does not justify it's mass nor froward balance. Simply put, it's too slow. If you look a bit more carefully at fighting the knives you are referring to, you will notice they all have substantially greater reach and overall geometry tuned for a certain martial style. SH does not. It's that simple.

 

[jedi_pimp]

I recall many years ago Mcclung issued a standing challenge, he would give a substantial reward to any knifemaker who could outchop him on 2x4's using their knife with him using his knives.

As I recall, nobody took him up on the challenge.

However, this was many years ago, so my memory may be incorrect, but that is how I remember it.

 

[lsstaipei]

Back in 1999/2000,what impressed me most after reading alot of stuff posted by Maddog dealers and MD "fans" is they can do chin-ups on it.Well,amazing.I was so close to ordering one,but I needed a new pack at that time and in tight budget and I found air soft gun players bought a lot of them here,then I cooled down.I still "want" one now because they look so cool!
I don't know Mr.McClung marketed it as a pure fighting knife or a survival knife at that time,but the dealers marketed them just like a survival knife.

 

[Walking Man]

Chinups shouldn't be a big deal for many knives. To me that's not a very good test.
Give a knife to Cliff. I believe he's THE MAN when it comes to testing. He is both objective and fair, and fully scientific. He has NOTHING to gain by saying any knife is better than any other.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I recall many years ago Mcclung issued a standing challenge, he would give a substantial reward to any knifemaker who could outchop him on 2x4's using their knife with him using his knives.

That was Stewart not McClung. He claimed to have beaten lots of people, including a CS khukuri with an ATAK. Turber and others have done chopping comparisons, the ATAK is vastly outperformed.

-Cliff