MAD DOG Update #5

M

Mike Turber

Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
5,461
We received Dr. Welch's ATAK 2 yesterday and the X-Rays. The X-Rays show no notches at all so that is a good sign!

Now Nam Vo is in Orlando and he has an ATAK as well. We will try to meet up with him, hopefully Friday or Saturday.

Question: Is anyone going to be in that area to witness the tests?

I would love to have Earl Stewart show up if he is interested.

Also my first impression on the ATAK I just received is the edge is not very sharp. In fact it is somewhat dull and is in no way razor sharp. Plus is shows signs of surface oxidation on the edge.

Should I resharpen it for the test?

Also please do not use this thread for any attack in any manner. As promissed we will share info with you guys when we get it.

For comparison I will test the ATAK directly against the Mission MPK. I will have each person who witnesses the test sign a statement that they will not devuldge the test results until I run the first issue of the Magazine on January 1st.

I know you guys want those results quick but I need a teaser for the new magazine!

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
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Wait a sec, wouldn't this be update #6?

You'll get flak from the MD camp no matter what, so do what your think is fair. and if it were me in this possition I would sharpen the knife(as this is obviously not the edge it left the factory with, so it doesn't need to be held to the standards as the NIB knives) but try to change the angle as little as possible.

Sincerely,
Adam

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Self improvement is a hobby of mine :).

 
Adam,

This is the edge from the factory as the knife has never been used.

So now what?

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

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Another vote for sharpening.

Kevin never denied that his pieces need maintanence. A frequent comment is "wipe it down like a gun". If that isn't done you'll get a rusty edge; if you don't properly sharpen it it'll have an abnormal disadvantage...or at the very least, that can be claimed.

Jim
 
Ya Jim but then someone will claim I did not sharpen well. I just want to be upfront with everything.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

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have someone else sharpen it, is my vote--so there can be no questions later on. like maybe Nam Vo? you could have someone watch the sharpening and sign statements about that, too...

seems like if it doesn't start out sharp, that's asking for trouble on down the road in more ways than one.

you could always video tape the test proceedings as further insurance...

or even promise a delayed webcam broadcast to coincide with the magazine's publish date
wink.gif


silverwing

[This message has been edited by silverwing (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
Well then, how old is the knife? I've found that my carbon steel knives "Dull themselves" over time. I'm guessing that the edge just combines with the water in the air and microscopily rusts away, but I'm not really sure.

I'd still touch up the edge. You could sharpen it in the same manor as you are going to do the camillus, and use that as proof that you are a good sharpener.

Then agian, the only real way to avoid all critism from MD fans is to send it to MD himself to resharpen it.

Sincerely,
Adam

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Self improvement is a hobby of mine :).

 
You could sharpen it with one of the fixed angle jigs (like Lansky, Skarb, etc). If you use the magic marker on the edge technique you should be able to pretty accurately preserve the factory angle. If you are worried about people doubting your veracity then do it in front of witnesses. Have them all sign statements and have them noterized if you want. As stated earlier there is always going to be somebody that doesn't agree. Let them conduct there own tests. If you record your methods in enough detail, they should be able to repeat them.

Paul Davidson
 
Sign statements that they witnessed a knife being sharpened? I know the word "Truth" can be a relative word when found on the internet, but I don't think its that messed up.

Besides, anyone who is going to believe that Mike threw the tests by badly sharpening a knife that was already dull, and note how I say Already Dull, will probably not give a piece of paper that says "I was there and say it happen" a second look.

Sincerely,
Adam

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Self improvement is a hobby of mine :).

 
Mike, I know for dang sure you can sharpen a knife. The vast majority of the forumites can judge a knife's sharpness.

One or two witnesses should be fine. Any requirements for "validation" beyond that gets into insulting people's integrity, especially Mike's.

Jim
 
Signed sworn statements?!?! Well then, be sure to have it notarized as well! And by a party that is not known to any involved! Good grief.
smile.gif


Oh yes, sharpen the blade.

L8r,
Nakano

[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
Nam Viet Vo, if you're there, tell us how that Mad Dog folder project went.

Thanks,
Smoke
 
Did I write that Mike SHOULD have them noterized? Huh? Did anybody read that? I said that if Mike was worried about people questioning his methods then he could have it done that way. You guys need to seriously chill out. Here's a quote for those of you that have trouble.

If you are worried about people doubting your veracity then do it in front of witnesses. Have them all sign statements and have them noterized if you want.
Click to expand...

Note the word IF and the phrase IF YOU WANT. If I am insulting Mike's integrity, he is a big boy and can tell me himself. "Good grief" is right.

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Paul Davidson

Them:"What's that clipped to your pocket, a beeper?"
Me:"Uuh....yeah, something like that."


 
Nam Viet Vo; I would love to know what happened to that folder project as well. I stoped going to Knife forums and sold my brand new Rat thing because of the thread that involved you and that folder project. I would love to know what happened.
ALex http://home.att.net./~a.boriqua
 
Mike, the optimal solution is to run the tests twice. First with the factory edges and second when both have been sharpened by the same person. If you don't have the time or the desire to repeat the testing then you have to make a decision on which set of data is more important. Personally I would go with the second as you only have the factory edge once. However from a maker/dealer viewpoint the first is very important as many people who buy knives look for that. I would strongly bet that if you put all the blades out and polled a random selection of knife users to evaluate them the sharpest would get high praise and any that were significantly dull would be looked at very badly.

As for the comments about requiring a witness to the sharpening/testing, if you are determined to make a knife do poorly it would be pretty much impossible for someone to catch you doing it. Small differences in technique can make large differences in performance, not to mention the fact that you would need to be watching the blade very carefully without pause from the time it left the factory until the time the test is over.

Bottom line - if you don't trust Mike to be unbiased, there is no way to make sure he is not except for you to repeat the work yourself.

-Cliff



[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
I would sharpen the knife. Anybody who received a knife that was dull and was going to be a user would touch it up. In order to keep the tests as "real world" as possible, the knife would have to be sharpened.

I think we all spend too much time worrying about the 'bias' issue. People can analyze for themselves what bias they believe is there based on thier own experience and the experiences of others. A single review, by itself, can't be taken as THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH by everyone. Some people will always doubt the results, whether testing MD knives or RONCO egg-o-matics. I think the knife tests are great and are a START to any research I might do before purchasing a knife. But then if I go someplace and have a MD in my hand and think it is great and worth the money I might buy it anyway.

This seems to be a very emotionally charged debate, but I think most of us 'on the sidelines' look at the information and facts (as we perceive them) we can get and try to discard the rest.

Very long post for me. I'll shut up now.
smile.gif




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Pete
"Mishaps are like knives, that either serve us or cut us, as we grasp them by the blade or the handle."

 
Cliff said :

Bottom line - if you don't trust Mike to be unbiased, there is no way to make sure he is not except for you to repeat the work yourself.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. If you don't trust Mike to do the best job possible, then what's the point (no pun intended). There will be nay-sayers and doubters regardless of the results.

Perhaps a non-knife user would not sharpen a dull blade prior to use and judge the knife accordingly, but the members of this Forum would sharpen prior to use, and you're testing usability. A comment as to the degree of sharpness out-of-the box would be interesting, perhaps as a comment on maker quality control/attention to detail.

And sharpening the blade would give additional test results regarding ease of sharpening and edge retention.

I'd sharpen all knives to satisfaction prior to testing.

Happy Thanksgiving!


Nick

[This message has been edited by chetchat (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
You've been planning all along to do another test after sharpening all the knives, haven't you? Speaking for myself, once that test is reported I'm going to forget all about the test with factory edges; I don't care how sharp a knife comes. I seldom even use it once before sharpening it myself; they never come with the angle I want. So I don't care if this knife gets into the factory edge test or not -- YMMV.

"Also please do not use this thread for any attack in any manner."

Are you kidding???
smile.gif


We of the WB&C want this tool examined for other kinds of secret marks that wouldn't show up on x-ray, such as invisible ink and microscopic engravings. We are particularly concerned about the possibility the blade may have been marked as a reject before it was chrome plated. What if Mad Dog wrote "R" on the choil with a magic marker and then a dishonest employee found it in the wastebasket and put it in a batch of blades to be plated intending to steal it later, and now the "R" is covered with chrome plating? How could we detect that now? How can we ever be sure???

-Wholly Brother Cougar, Speaker to the Cistern :{)
Wholly Brotherhood and Cisternity of Voracious Truth
 
If you don't sharpen the knife then it's a foregone conclusion that the knife will bomb the test, so then what's the value of testing it at all.

Sharpen all the knives that need it but take a point off for a dull factory edge.

My $.02

BTW, has the issue of the notched handles been resolved fully, or was MDK blowing smoke up our a$$es.

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"Things fall apart; the center cannot hold … The best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

[This message has been edited by D. Epstein (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
Mike,
I know im no expert but I would love to witness the test.Im leaving for Orlando tuesday morning.When are you holding the
test,and is it at all posible for me to watch.
Take care and Happy Thanksgiving

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Jay
LIFE IS LIKE A BOX OF CHOCOLATES,NEVER KNOW WHAT YOUR GONA GIT!
 
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